Transitions
When an employee gets the boot, it’s customary for the displaced person to pack up and leave the same day – sometimes with an official escort to ensure that the evicted one departs without engaging in acts of theft or sabotage.
A defeated president has nearly three months to clear the way for his successor, and to date none of them have required an escort to push them out the door. It’s too early to say if Donald Trump will be the lone exception, but the man is still crying foul nearly a month after Joe Biden bested him in both the popular and electoral vote tallies. He rants, he rage-tweets, he unleashes his legal hounds on the swing states that narrowly defeated him. Surely those corrupt vote counters, or the conspiratorial governors, or the FBI, or the CIA deliberately hid untold thousands of Trump votes that would have put him over the top – right?
He seems to grow more deranged and paranoid by the day, if possible. Or, just as likely, he’s putting on a helluva show to whip his loyal base into a frenzy. Either way, Trump refuses to go gently. He’s made a few mild overtures toward the incoming administration, but he still won’t concede. Even Nixon, who arguably was cheated out of the presidency when he ran against JFK in 1960, immediately conceded for the good of the country. Such selfless thinking is as alien to Trump as art, science or stamp collecting. The only good he cares about is the Trump brand.
It has to be the ultimate in cognitive dissonance for Trump to acknowledge that he’s been fired. After all, he’s the one who has always done the firing. It’ll be a strange new world for the defeated potentate. He’s had to put up with torrents of abuse from snooty Democrats for the past four years – and now THIS. The bubble is popped, the magic undone, and he’ll have to slink off into the sunset like any mere mortal worth a billion dollars.
Meanwhile, plucky old Joe Biden is preparing to take the reins. At the very least, it’ll be refreshing to see a man with recognizable human emotions occupy the White House. (How can you not love a guy who fractures his foot while romping with a dog?
We can predict that Biden will choose a cabinet that “looks like America,” in the current parlance of the progressive wing of his party. Yet, for all the posturing of the militant progressives, Biden is an old-fashioned moderate-liberal Democrat: an earthy, plain-spoken product of Pennsylvania’s coal country, with a backbone and ample common sense to match his big heart. I don’t see him kowtowing to the woke folk or driving us down the slippery slope to socialism, as the alarmists would have us believe.
If he succeeds and manages to serve out his term with his body and faculties intact, Biden can persuade our coastal elites, alienated racial minorities, suburbanites and angry white working class that they all belong to the same great nation. It won’t be an easy task to reunite a fractured America, but Biden is probably our last, best hope for bridging the deep divide. The New Moderate wishes him (and America) a smooth transition and a happy four-year term.
Now for some other transitions The New Moderate would like to see during the next four years and beyond:
Hyperpartisanship –> cooperation. What’s good for the party isn’t necessarily good for the country. Our political class needs to rethink the “us vs. them” mentality that has sabotaged the last two presidential administrations. Of course the two parties won’t always agree – nor should they — but they must move beyond the myopic confines of hostile partisanship if they’re going to govern wisely. If they continue on the current course, we’ll need to break the stranglehold of the Republican-Democrat duopoly either by supporting independent candidates (so that neither party enjoys a majority) or by doing the unthinkable and forming a national centrist party (preferably with a more exciting name).
Oligarchy –> true representative democracy. Let’s face it: lobbyists, Wall Street and corporate interests pull the strings in Congress. We could use a good populist president to drive the money changers out of Washington. Barring that, we need an outright ban on political bribery – by Constitutional amendment if necessary. Conscientious Republicans and Democrats can unite behind this all-important cause. Another suggestion: Extend Congressional terms from two to six years so our representatives aren’t constantly in campaign mode.
Extreme wealth disparities –> reasonable distribution of wealth. No, not socialism… what I’d like to see is a return to the more equitable wealth distribution of the post-World War II era. Sorry, but not even the best CEOs deserve to earn 400 times the salary of the average worker. (The typical ratio was more like 15-1 during the Eisenhower years.) We need to re-introduce higher taxes on astronomical incomes, put ordinary workers on corporate boards, and halt our progression toward a neo-feudal society of lords and serfs.
Tribalism –> unity. Identity politics has been the scourge of the century in American society. It’s reached the point where we’ve split into isolated “communities” that have nothing to do with geography – or other Americans. It’s commendable to be a proud member of your own tribe, but membership in American society must always come first.
Police as enforcers –> police as protectors. BLM and its allies may have gone off the rails in depicting a genocidal campaign by police against black men (thanks mainly to cherry-picked news stories), but police reform – especially in the inner cities – is seriously overdue. Defunding the police isn’t the answer; instead, cities need to train their cops to use lethal weapons more sparingly, build trust, and emphasize their role in defending their communities against violent offenders. No more needless shootings over broken tail lights!
Agenda-driven news –> unbiased news. Nothing has polarized American society like the ideological amen corners of our chosen news sources. The internet and cable news have been the prime culprits, and it will be a colossal challenge to keep them honest. Fact-checking sites are a godsend (if only we’d use them more often), but of course the preferred solution would be a proliferation of moderate and neutral newspapers, magazines, cable news stations and websites. After watching the mid-region of American politics shrink over the past decade, I’m not especially optimistic. But we can still fight the good fight to deliver our fellow citizens from the echo chambers of willfully distorted media.
Isolationism –> global leadership. Trump wasn’t wrong to pull back from our overextended commitment to policing the world, but he pulled back too far. We need to resume our central role in the global community, or else we surrender power to the likes of Germany, Russia and China. We shouldn’t revive our compulsively interventionist foreign policy of yore – or require a military budget bigger than that of the next twelve nations combined. But we should seize the opportunity to mediate international disputes and showcase our democratic (small D) values on an international stage. The world needs us again.
Pandemic –> reopened society. Goes without saying: we all want our freedom back. But it can’t happen until we’re vaccinated. Meanwhile, wear those masks and keep your distance!
Rick Bayan is founder-editor of The New Moderate. His three collections of darkly humorous essays are available in e-book form for just $2.99 each on Amazon. Perfect pandemic reading!
All material in The New Moderate copyright 2007-2020 by Rick Bayan. Feel free to share as long as you credit me (and The New Moderate) as your source.
THE NEW MODERATE 
Agree wholeheartedly on ALMOST all you said, but you probably knew this already, no?
First police, and again ‘defunding’ is not only a lousy word to use describing this action, but I also again feel you got it wrong. Police are spread in areas they are not needed, and their lack of training in those areas causes more harm than good. Example: the shooting in your own town of a black man with mental issues. This should have been handled by those with training, and not by police in uniform. Any police should have held back & been equipped with new n lethal control weapons.
Second, I agree we need more unbiased news – like AP, but unless a reversal of Republican laws that allowed biased news happens, it’s AP all the way for me. Fact checking sites unfortunately only work when far left & far right news fanatics stop reading from their sources how biased those fact check sites are.
I too hope things can become less radicalized… that I could trust records of the person leaving weren’t changed or destroyed… that we will never again expose our country to an egomaniac, a man bereft of any sight that wasn’t in and of himself… but yes, no guarantee so we must guard ourselves in the future.
Pulling back from policing the world? Yes, but not just too far… also too fast.
…that’s all Rick. Good column.
We actually agree on even more than you thought. I called for training the police to emphasize protection over enforcement (though of course they still have to do both). Delegating some responsibilities to social workers might help, but I think they’d still need police back-up just in case.
As for foreign entanglements, I took a moderate position — like you. And I think we agree that we don’t want another egomaniac in the White House. (But how do we prevent it from happening again? It’s up to the voters to avoid being hoodwinked by charismatic con artists.)
Back up is fine, like I said, but equipped with non-lethal weapons as we’ve discussed… and standing back to give social workers or others more formally trained with these situations a chance to succeed without incident.
There have to be additional laws passed so that someone can no longer hold such close ties to foreign entities. Even held & run by someone or something other than a relative, it is there. Selling is the way, and (if trump really was as rich as he said) he would still have the money.
As far as a charismatic con artist, they are out there, and you know of my personal issue with trump that started YEARS before any inkling of this fiasco. If someone like him is to run, with his vast amount of litigation that was kept secret as part of the payoff (designed by trump of course, so he could leave smiling again like he actually won) those findings need to be made public.
In the real world you must deal with things as they are.
We need police. We are not going to employ racket scientists to do the job.
Frankly the job is attractive to mostly the wrong people, and unattractive to mostly the right ones.
Regardless, the job must be done with the people we have.
This limitation exists pretty much everywhere.
ARRA failed – because there are only so many engineers in the country.
And getting those “shovel ready” public works projects actually under construction severely reduced enginerring capacity elsewhere. Slowing down comerical projects. The net impact of ARRA was negative.
If you want better police – where are you going to get them ? Lets say we pay police better and train them better and we get the pick of the crop.
Now we have less teachers and lawyers and doctors.
I do not oppose better police training – but do not expect miracles. You will not get them.
I would further note that policing has been improving for 5 decades.
The left burned down the country at a period of time when about 10 unarmed black man are killed each year by police.
An order of magnitude more young black men have died in Chicago in the past 6 months.
There are lots of improvements that we can make in policing
But there is no low hanging fruit.
What is true is that we have burned the country down in outrage over something mostly inconsequential.
And responsibility for that lies with the left – not the police.
Yes, yes, yes!
I gave the Biden campaign all I could afford. he is exactly what I want. First he fended off the left and won the nomination, then he beat Trump. He is aiming at a middle path. Thank God. It won’t be easy, he will get it from both sides. My idea of heaven right now is to see both demagogues, sanders and trump and their movements deranged.
I wrote defanged, not deranged, spelling changed it. Grrrr it’s a leftist plot.
Roby: Of course our conservative friends will warn us that Biden is a harbinger of socialism, but I share your hope that he can bridge the rift between “red” and “blue” America — and govern from the center (or pretty close to it).
I hope that you do not get what you deserve.
The chances of getting what you asked for are nil.
You can look forward to 4 years of hell as you observe in real time the consequences.
But I expect to see your head in the sand.
I would further note – you have not derailed the “trump” movement.
The consequential problems in this country today are entirely on the left, and this election inevitably will make them worse.
Biden is already putting back in government the same people or their alloclytes who gave us the Obama era – the most corrupt adminsitration ever. Do you expect them to be better this time arround ?
Further this election was conducted so lawlessly and corruptly – that Trump or no Trump you are unlikely to ever get the cooperation of republicans in congress or legislatures throughout the country ever again. I posted elsewhere here about the nonsense in PA.
Pa republicans actually compromised with democrats and wolf to pass new election law.
While I will condemn the result as allowing mailin voting – the most corrupt form there is,
otherwise the changes were good. Purportedly the fight in PA over voter ID ended. Democrats and Wolf accepted the requirement for Voter ID in all forms of voting – including Malin ballots.
But come the actual election – Wolf and big city democrats conspiring with the PA scotus entirely ignored all parts of the new law they did not like.
Do you expect the republican controlled PA legislature to compromise with democrats again in the next decade ?
I would further note you do not know how many tens of millions of people you have angered with these shenanigans.
The left democrats and the media have entirely burned their credibility with about half the country.
That is not a trivial to fix problem.
I hear idiot talking heads left and right claiming there was no election fraud.
Who is going to beleive those who lied to them repeatedly ?
Even if you were actually telling the truth – you still would not be beleived, you have so badly damaged your credibility.
Regarldess, you spent 4 years hanging idiocy like this collusion delusion nonsense on Trump and the rest of us.
Do you expect that people are going to forget, kiss and make up ?
There has been no actual right wing violence of consequence in the past 4 years – it has all been the left.
And I hope and pray those on the right are not yet disillusioned enough by the lawlessness of the left to follow our founders – please read the declaration of independence.
But make no mistake – that is where the country is headed.
When a president loses after the first term, they can run again. What better time to raise money than when 73M+ voters voted for you and many believe fraud resulted in that defeat? Promote the fraud theme because there are so many different opportunities for fraud to occur, unlike in pre-computer era and pre-mail-in ballot era as well as the lack of transparency like we had in 2000 when all those pictures were provided on the Florida recount. Bring in $ for court cases, dont spend it, put it in campaign for 2024.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/01/politics/donald-trump-2024/index.html
“ Biden is an old-fashioned moderate-liberal Democrat: an earthy, plain-spoken product of Pennsylvania’s coal country, with a backbone and ample common sense to match his big heart. I don’t see him kowtowing to the woke folk or driving us down the slippery slope to socialism, as the alarmists would have us believe.”
…Good luck with that. He will present his more “moderate” of his cabinet to begin with, then throw in those that will address the special interest groups, like LQGBT where one can expect support for male athletes posing as female athletes (through hormone transformation) demanding a place on the female teams. We can also expect a return to the Paris agreement where America is disadvantaged and China benefits from the unfair and unequal requirements of that agreement. We can expect a return to free/unfair trade with china resulting in job loses.Spreading a few tariff dollars among many buyers and saving jobs is better than losing good paying jobs and reducing income to workers..
Hyperpartisanship –> cooperation..Us v. them..
Good policy! For the parties. Who wants to be the moderates in each party running against each other with few differences. Move to the fringes, excite your fringe base, attack your opponent, divide the country and make the moderates in the middle have to hold their nose and choose. Clinton/Trump..Biden/Trump..GAG!
Oligarchy –> true representative democracy. “Conscientious Republicans and Democrats”. Wake up they don’t exist! And if they do, they are like Susan Collins or Joe Manchin, after thoughts within their own parties.
Extreme wealth disparities “ what I’d like to see is a return to the more equitable wealth distribution of the post-World War II era”
OK, you provided your idea, but not how we get there? How does one control what a corporation pays without becoming socialist? Higher taxes are redistribution of wealth which is socialism. How does one require more workers on boards in a free capitalist society?
Tribalism ..Just another Us v Them and good for party politics.
Police as enforcers.
Maybe if they were paid at a level they deserve and not at the lower end of any income group we might get better individuals that could be trained better. But society also has to understand that when one is threatened, one can protect themselves.
Agenda-driven news –> unbiased news.
I have been told the news is no different now than in the 1700’s. I am still trying to find statements by Cronkite, Huntley-Brinkley and Tim Russert to see how they compare to the far left reporters today.
Isolationism –> global leadership.
We do not need to be the policeman of the world. We need to demand that the rest of the free world provides that same percentage of input into freedom as the USA. We have lost enough blood and wasted enough money over the past 50+ years to last another 200.
You are no moderate… In fact, you are sitting in the ‘it’s all about me’ section next to ‘brainwashed’ ‘show me the money’ ‘i only read crap’ ‘only white matters’ and others with similar ideals.
Shovel your money to the idiot – trump is no more come January, and it will help pay his NY legal fees.
Ron has been here for a long time.
He has earned his stripes as a moderate.
With respect to your post.
You do not understand the determination of those who elected Trump in 2016 and voted for him in 2020.
Whether Trump runs in 2024 or not – which I doubt, Trumpism owns the republican party.
Whether you like it or not democrats are in serious trouble.
It took multiple miracles and massive lawlessness – and not just election fraud to eek out a 40,000 vote win – that is the margin in AZ, GA, and WI – without which Biden has 269 EC votes and loses.
Regardless, that is not repeatable.
If you think that the vote was done properly in 2020. Wait for 2022 or 2024.
democrats took seats in CA in 2018 by massive ballot harvesting – which is legal in CA. In 2020 they lots nearly all those seats – republicans learn.
Conduct the 2022 election in the same way as the 2020 election and it will be trivial to invalidate hundreds of thousands of democratic votes.
Democrats can either follow the law, or republicans are capable of capitalizing on democratic lawlessness.
It also took much higher than normal turnout from your left wing nuts.
If Biden does not deliver for them – they are NOT coming back.
The democratic party is held together by a thread – that is part of the reason that the rest of this election went so badly for democrats.
Narrowly defeating Trump – by hook or crook is about the only bright spot.
IF you do not think the house is flipping in 2022 you are engaged in wishful thinking. Further republicans made significant gains down ballot – in state legislatures Governors, etc.
Republicans have a fairly bright future. It should now be self evident that the realignment – shifting of blue collar workers to the GOP and NeoCons to the Democrats is permanent. Further Republicans are gaining among ALL minorities. And they are going to continue to do so.
I do not know who the 2024 Republican candidate will be. But the republican platform is set for the next decade – and it is Trumpism.
And electing Biden is a self punishing act for democrats.
Biden will be compared to Trump – in everything from this moment forward.
I honestly hope he can do as well. But I can not honestly say that he has a snowballs chance of doing so.
But Hunter will get to sell the Lincoln Bedroom.
rondabellelane, Ron happens to be a longtime commenter here, and is, in fact a moderate, although a right leaning one, which for you left-leaning folks who consider yourselves moderate is apparently a difficult concept to grasp. He’s also a sharp observer of political realities. Why his comment led you to call him “brainwashed,” I have no clue.
I “shoveled my money to the idiot,” and I don’t regret a single penny. I also believe that there was massive fraud in the election. So, sue me. I don’t apologize for my opinions, and you are free to trash me as you wish ~ I won’t respond in kind. Vermonta, up above, has called me a freak, a cult worshiper, a traitor (that was back in 2016 after Trump was elected “with Russia’s help”), a moron, and many, many other similarly charming appellations. I keep trying to convince him that we can discuss Trump without resorting to personal insults, but that rarely, if ever, works. My experience has been that people who hate Trump supporters are just irrational in their hatred, so I don’t take the personal attacks personally, if that makes sense.
Rick, I know that you have high hopes for Biden’s presidency, and I honestly hope that he turns out to be the good guy that you think he is. Unsurprisingly, I don’t see much good in him, although, as I always chide those who suffer from TDS, none of us really know Trump, and being obnoxious and inarticulate is not the same as being a racist, a homophobe, a narcissist (or malignant narcissist, as some have called him) or any of the other bad guy terms applied to him, so maybe Joe really, really didn’t take money from the millions paid to his son by Ukrainian oligarchs or Chinese communists, and know nothing of his son’s lobbying efforts. Maybe Hunter really is a brilliant guy who made his millions as an astute businessman, rather than as the drug-addicted scion of his powerful father. I think he is a corrupt elitist, who has lost his mental acuity, and will function primarily as a figurehead, but, if he surprises me, and governs as a moderate, I will not only be very happy, but I will apologize to you for doubting what a great guy he is. (Will I apologize to Roby?~ sure, I’ll do that too!)
Extreme wealth disparity ~ I agree that this has been an increasing problem, as fewer and fewer multi-billionaires accumulate more and more billions, while the working class iincreasingly sees their jobs move overseas and their prospects for similarly well-paying jobs becoming non-existent. It’s precisely this hollowing out of the middle class by the global economy that led to the rise of the new American populism, Sanders on the left and Trump on the right. I guess you could say that the problems that led to Trump winning in 2016 (and 2020, but we won’t go there 😉 ) are still gonna be around. Now that the left may have succeeded in finally destroying Trump,we’ll see if more socialist policies can calm the madding crowds of unemployed. Not sure, myself, how paying the college bills of upper middle class kids is going to do that, but we’ll see.
Oligarchy – See, in my view, the oligarchs, particularly the tech oligarchs, made sure that this election turned out their way. Not sure how they will allow us regular folks back in the game, now that they have figured out how easy it is to gaslight us. I’d love to be wrong on this one too.
Tribalism. Biden’s called right-wingers “the dregs of society,” which is not an auspicious start to unity.
Agenda driven news ~ yep. That’s not the problem, though. Censorship is the problem.
Global leadership ~ we’ll likely be going back to “leading from behind.” It didn’t work last time, but maybe it will this time. I hope that Trump has time to get us out of the ME before we have to go back.
One thing I always know about you, Rick, is that you are smart, compassionate, tolerant to a fault and well-meaning. As the years of TNM have gone by, I’ve always found that I can learn from you, even when we disagree, which we often do these days. I’d rather learn through disagreement, really, because learning from agreeing seems more like, well, more like just agreeing. We’re the same tribe, just different wings of that tribe.
I didn’t think I was arguing – merely pointing out the error of your interpretation. What you say & think is beyond my control, and I seriously don’t want to argue.
Priscilla: Despite my dislike of Trump, I’ve taken heat from my more leftish friends (including my own cousin) for not being *sufficiently* anti-Trump. (I didn’t think he was the second coming of Hitler, and I’d actually give him credit when he did something right.) In fact, the animosity toward Trump was so vicious and relentless that I stirred up a row on my FB page by asking my liberal friends not to make me sympathize with the man.
That said, I think he’s been a destructive force: too many lies, wild accusations, and intemperate words. He’s stirred up a dangerous fanaticism among his hard-core base, and it’ll be hard to repair the rift between them and the coastal elites.
For the record, I did think Trump was justified in trying to dig up dirt on Hunter Biden. If the wayward son was using his unearned position to peddle influence with his dad (and the Obama administration), the public should have been made aware of it. (It was never proven, but it was worth investigating.)
I’ve always valued your rational voice here, even when we’re at odds politically. My tribe is your tribe, and may it always be so.
Exactly… In one, next to the others. My words, your misinterpretation.
Ron,
Please get a grip on reality.
You have said what you have said. The words are out there.
What part of YOUR remarks below are “misinterpreted” ?
“You are no moderate…”
And those of us who have been here with RonP for a decade should take your word over facts, and experience ?
BTW what is it that you think an actual moderate is ?
” In fact, you are sitting in the ‘it’s all about me’ section next to ‘brainwashed’ ‘show me the money’ ‘i only read crap’ ‘only white matters’ and others with similar ideals.”
Please explain to me how to interpret this as something other than typical leftist ad hominem ?
“Its all about me” – absolutely. It is.
Self interest has been the most powerful force for good in human existance.
The benefits of free exchange just in the past decade or two dwarf all charity EVER.
“It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own self-interest. We address ourselves not to their humanity but to their self-love, and never talk to them of our own necessities, but of their advantages”
Adam Smith
When C19 first arrived – we were told there would be no hand sanitizer.
In less than a week there were skids of hand sanitizer in Olly’s
We were told that the Chinese would keep all PPE for themselves – which they did. The US within a few weeks became an exporter of PPE to the world.
We were told there would be a shortage of ventilators – turns out we did not need massive numbers of ventilators. Regardless – they were available if we needed.
We were told a vaccine would take years. There are three available today – 7 months later. If you count the MMR vaccine which is more effective against C19 that the Flu vaccine against the flu – there are 4 – with more on their way.
I can go on and on. This was not delivered by government – though Trump had a hand. This was delivered by people pursing their self interests – the same force that has met pretty much every human want or need ever.
“Shovel your money to the idiot – trump is no more come January, and it will help pay his NY legal fees.”
So your plan is to continue the illegal investigations that you spent the past 4 years pursuing ?
When is it that you get it through your head – there is nothing to find.
That just because you disagree with people does not make them crooked.
You should concern yourself more with the things you were unwilling to investigate.
We listened to this emoluments nonsense for 4 years – and here with have the whole Biden clan slurping at the public trough.
I did not vote for Trump twice.
But I find those that could vote for either Clinton or Biden morally repugnant and completely clueless.
Ron: You definitely covered a lot of ground — don’t feel obligated to assume Dave’s old role 😉 . I can’t reply to all your arguments, but I’ll tackle a few. You made a good, concise point about polarization: “Move to the fringes, excite your fringe base, attack your opponent, divide the country.” That seems to be the unfortunate modus operandi of our politicians and news outlets. Moderate ideas don’t excite anyone, and provoking excitement seems to be an essential ingredient for success these days. (I’ve tried to make moderate ideas exciting, but hardly anyone has noticed.)
How do we restore the more equitable income distribution of the postwar era without government taking control of corporations? Good question. I’d ask what kind of mentality prevailed in the 1950s, when CEOs were content making 15 times the average worker’s salary (and were heavily taxed to boot). It might be that the Depression and World War II engendered a value system that encouraged us to pull together for the common good. Individual talent and effort were still rewarded, but it was a more “neighborly” era. Americans were more community-minded (the broader community, not one’s special-identity community) without being collectivist; it seemed to be the perfect balance. In today’s winner-take-all climate, that would be a breath of fresh air. I wonder, though, if we’re capable of pulling together anymore. If the pandemic didn’t do it, what will it take? An alien invasion? (They’ll probably politicize that, too.)
As for old Joe Biden, I’m trying to be an optimist. I think he has the potential to be a unifying figure, even if he’s little more than a figurehead. I’m sure he’ll throw a bone or two to the woke left, but unless he loses his faculties, they won’t dominate his administration.
Rick, sorry too long. YES.
I am constantly “attacked” by liberal friends because I say I supported many of Trumps policies (ie Trade, Paris Accords, Iran, Middle east) as well as conservative friends when I say I am for open borders with no government support of any kind for immigrants (just like immigrants before immigration policies), ending drug laws and transferring money to treatment, Medicare-Buy-in with ACA subsidies transferred as well as Medicaid moneys for supporting PPACA subscribers and Medicaid patients all while creating competition for insurance companies and accepting decisions on climate change policies as long as the treatment of the USA is fair and equal with China and other developed nations.
So with that I will just say next time you list thoughts, I will only address one or two of the most important.
“How do we restore the more equitable income distribution ”
Simple – YOU CAN’T
Absolutely anything that raises equity above liberty results in carnage.
Please bother to learn from history.
The 50’s Really ?
And can we get rid of this crap about taxes were higher then ?
No they were not ? Only idiots payed those high tax rates.
What was different was that there were bazillions of loopholes.
High rates with large numbers of politically created loopholes is a corrupt model for taxes.
Regardless, even Obama’s CEA Christine Romer found that the revenue maximizing upper marginal tax rate was about 35%.
Further the very fact that you are even discussing using taxes to redistribute income is morally bankrupt – aside from the fact that it is stealing.
It is also dysfunctional.
WE know that high marginal tax rates are economically harmful, and we know that subsidies to low income are also economically harmful.
So you seem to want a double whammy – you want those greatest at creating wealth both for themselves and others, to refrain from doing so, and you want to kill off the incentive of those at the bottom to do better.
Rick you are smarter than this – I hope.
I wanted to address your comments regarding police reform. I believe that it takes a special type of person to become a police officer. They must live with the threat of death everytime they pulll a car over, everytime they respond to a disturbance. I think that a person who can live with that type of fear must themselves have a propensity for violence. I know that I couldn’t do it, but I know that without these types of people, our society would collapse into anarchy. So given that these types of people are essential to a peaceful society, our society must also implement restrains upon the use of their power. Every police officer should be equipped with a body cam, a taser, and other non-lethal ammunition such as bean bag guns.
Additionally, the police need to be much better educated and have more extensive training. Also, when they are dealing with the mentally disabled, a psychologist should accompany them. Lastly, they need to be better paid. All of these changes will be costly but not as costly as the lawsuits and the riots.
Savannah, I didn’t even mention the police in my comment, because I agree with everything you say here.
I stopped reading when I discovered you didn’t read. I said he was in the company of brainwashed & others, not one himself.
Few are moderates, though many claim that. Those with trump are not moderates.
“you are sitting in the ‘it’s all about me’ section next to ‘brainwashed’ ‘show me the money’ ‘i only read crap’ ‘only white matters’ and others with similar ideals.”
Your words, not mine, dear.
Hey, rondabellelane, I don’t want to get into a beef with you. I didn’t think that your remard to Ron was either moderate or polite, but, if you did not intend your comment to be an attack, then I’m sorry that I reacted to it as such. So, my sincere apologies. This comment section is generally pretty civil, and I’d like to see it stay that way.
(I read, btw! Perhaps not well, but I do 😉 )
Thank you Savannah. I agree.
Savannah, I agree with everything you say, but would add one additional proposal. Increased pay to get a higher level individual that can be recruited to fill these positions. Many ex-military with a high degree of self discipline who would be interested in law enforcement choose other professions due to low pay.
I am not disparaging the greatest number of police, but increasing income may allow for a higher level of qualifications that may screen.out the few marginal individuals that lead to questionable acts.
But those items that you list that monitor police actions like body cams and non lethal weapons could reduce the negative outcomes as well as document proper actions when questions arise.
You comment is for the most part reasonable.
I am going to respond with a sort of annecdote.
Some time ago “experts” looked for a solution to “cabrini green” – which has subsequently been torn down, but was itself supposedly an “expert” solution to the problems of poverty and housing.
They went in and sought out those with the best chance of success, they provided them with the best resources, excellent social workers, psychologists – all the support they needed.
Then they moved them out of cabrini green and into rental properties in better neighborhoods.
The success rate was incredible, so the pilot program was turned into the national program we now call “section 8”.
Today it is moving inner city drug dealers to working class minority neigborhoods and destroying them.
What went wrong ? The initial program cherry picked those most likely to succeed – many would have anyway. It provided them with the most talented resources.
Today if you receive section 8 – no one determines what you likelyhood of sucess is.
And you get the ordinary everyday social workers and other resources – not the best of the best.
There are many points to this story.
But one of them is that we must make things work with the people and resources we have.
The police are not going to magically get better. You are not going to get rid of those who are attracted to policing that we do not really want, and shift to the best of the best.
If you actually succeeded – you would break something else. Policing is one of many jobs that typically are filled by the people that are NOT the best of the best.
In every field we can see the amazing things that are possible – when the job is done by the best of the best. We are deluded if we think that can be done broadly.
We have to run the world we have with the people who are in it. And most are not the best of the best.
I do not want to rain on your efforts to improve policing, but there are few if any large changes possible, improvement is likely to be slow and incremental – just as it has been for 50 years.
I don’t know why but my comments about police reform have me listed as anonymous. Savannah Jordan
Because WordPress is evil.
Priscilla, Those who have been around know my positions. Those new like rondabellalane that come, read one comment, make ignorant rants homologous to every self center far left zealot that accuses instead of questions or debates deserves neither the time or effort in a response.
Ignorant rants… pot calling kettle black? As I said, I attributed one position to you, not the others. I did not call you ignorant, nor did I call anyone else that, and I am far from far left.
One major observation I have seen is that most right-minded people seem to consider themselves middle of the road, when they do not take into consideration the entire picture. That is not middle of the road. You must consider everything and weigh them – gathering information from sources that are as centered as possible, and my main source is AP.
rondabellelane, you point out a reality of political life, namely, that people who are “middle of the road,” and consider themselves moderates, can come from either side of the political spectrum. They do not all think the same, or vote the same, just because they are moderate and reasonable in their outlook. They can be right or left leaning.
You’re also correct in saying that it’s important to try and get information from relatively unbiased sources, although that takes a considerable amount of effort these days, because there aren’t many. The AP was once a straight news source, one that didn’t play one side against the other, but it has more recently become part of the mainstream media, and pushes the same narratives as the rest of the mainstream press.
Here’s a good example: yesterday, after announcing that he was appointing John Durham as Special Counsel, so that it would be harder for Biden to fire Durham, he was asked if the DOJ has found evidence of fraud in the election. His answer was that they have not, at this time, found evidence of enough fraud that would change the result. That was reported by every news outlet as if he had said that the DOJ was no longer investigating the election, that Biden had won fairly, and that the election had no fraud. Because of the false narrative attrributed to his remark, Barr was forced to issue a public statement that the DOJ was still investigating, that this was not over, that the states involved were also responsible for looking into the possibility of fraud, and that his first statement was simply the answer to a question regarding the current status of things.
So, if you only read the AP, and not Barr’s clarification, which was not widely reported, you would think that Barr was shutting the door on any possiblity if fraud, which he was not. That’s just a small example, but you can find them every day, big and small. When news outlets refuse to cover certain stories, or slant all of their coverage in one direction, they become little more than propaganda organizations. It’s up to the consumer to see through the bias, but that is often easier said than done.
I do not know you – yet,
All I have to judge is your comments so far.
But based on those – RonP is on target.
You did say RonP is not a moderate.
You said he was selfish.
You said he was brainwashed.
You implied he was a racist.
There are a few other insults that are difficult to decipher.
“I am far from far left.”
That is hard to tell. You certainly revel in the same alinskyite tactics – which BTW your nemesis Trump is also expert.
How are your posts different from Trump tweets ? Except for one thing. Trump has actually accomplished things with his life.
You we do not know about.
“One major observation I have seen is that most right-minded people seem to consider themselves middle of the road, when they do not take into consideration the entire picture.”
Pearls of wisdom and a total lack of self awareness.
“my main source is AP.”
Not the worst source today – but certainly not a credible one.
Credibility from the media is something sorely lacking.
This all probably highly inaccurate made up fake news right? All the facts will turn out to be false. The POTUS could not possibly be saying these things its all fake! Just more MSM propaganda.
“On Tuesday, Gabriel Sterling, a Georgia election official and a Republican, begged President Trump to stop pushing conspiracy theories about Joe Biden’s win in the state. “This all has to stop,” Sterling said in a remarkable press conference. “Someone is going to get hurt. Someone is going to get shot. Someone’s going to get killed. And it’s not right. It’s not right.” Now, with a grim inevitability, Trump has turned his fury on Sterling, and ramped up his baseless conspiracy theories about the election results. In a tweet late Tuesday, Trump shared the video of Sterling’s pleas alongside more incendiary misinformation about his loss. He raged: “Rigged Election. Show signatures and envelopes. Expose the massive voter fraud in Georgia. What is Secretary of State and [Gov. Brian Kemp] afraid of?”
Sarcasm aside, none of this could happen if trump did not have his brainwashed right wing nut populist mob who believe all he says. These are the people who are really responsible for the trump madness. It should take about another 6 months for all lot of these people to return to something approximating reality. But some will soldier on with their conspiracy theories, damaging both the country and the GOP.
I cannot wait for the whole disgusting vile freak show to be over.
So Roby, If this “Sarcasm aside, none of this could happen if trump did not have his brainwashed right wing nut populist mob who believe all he says” is not to energize the Georgia “mob” to get out and vote in January, nor is it to raise money for a 2024 campaign, why do you think he is doing this? He will never concede, but he has said he would leave.
On another note, Trump is going to have SS protection the rest of his life. Can anyone guess how much it is going to cost them to protect him when he gets back into the Trump organization and begins traveling the world to different properties he owns on a regular basis. How much are they going to have to pay per night in the Trump hotels or country clubs he stays in. I doubt we have ever had a ex-president that is going to do what Trump will be doing traveling more than he stays in one place. Reagan stayed in CA ranch, Clinton wherever his house is, Bush at this Texas Ranch and Obama in New England somewhere. As far as I know, Trump has no traditional residence since leaving New York, just the golf course in FL.
I think he is doing it because he is crazy and believes that he should always get what he wants and has no more understanding of the Constitution than a duck does of quantum physics. I think he is doing it because he has a gigantic case of affluenza and his lifelong feeling of alpha male entitlement. I think he is doing it because his fans love it and adoring feedback feeds his giant ego, which is quite wounded now. As Jonah Goldberg said:
“In a sense, I’m grateful that Trump is doubling down on everything wrong about his presidency in its final chapter. Yes, this is embarrassing for the country. Yes, Trump’s radioactive conspiracy theory of a stolen election will have a long, poisonous half-life. But Trump is removing any doubt that his narcissistic presidency was always entirely about him.”
No person who understands the intent of the framers of the Constitution regarding elections should stand for the trump theory of government that all GOP officials and appointees should feel that their job is to produce a victory for him and if they don’t do everything possible to produce that victory, even violate the Constitution to produce that trump victory they should be targeted for his abuse and thrown under the bus. Which is, of course, followed by the inevitable threats to their safety from the trumpmob.
The one good thing, no, great thing, I can say that gives me some hope for this country and shows that some portion of the GOP still believe in the Constitution is that every important GOP official, trump appointee, GOP judge, etc. who counted, certified, or ruled on the election have all executed their duties honorably and even courageously.
This has been an attempted coup by trump, thanks god, its been done with extreme incompetence and has been thwarted by honest GOP officials. I wish that this would have some impression on his adoring mob of supporters. Perhaps it finally will, in time on many of them.
Which does not mean that I am ruling out your explanation as well. Both things are part of it.
Ron, I never really thought about the difficulty and expense of protecting Trump, once he is out of office. There really has never been an ex-president, who, by virtue of his celebrity and his businesses, moves around as much as Trump is likely to, and is such a major target for assassination.
I have read that Trump has a private security team that works with the SS team that currently guards him, and I would guess that he will expand and continue that private team, so maybe that will cut down on some of the costs associated with his protection. He may even prefer a private team, given the problems he’s faced with finding government employees that he can trust.
I wonder about something else. I have read that the Democrats, if they win the Senate, will begin investigating Trump and his family as soon as he’s out of office. I’ve also read that Trump, if he loses the Electoral College, will announce his candidacy for 2024 on inauguration day. So, would a Democrat Congress be permitted to investigate him, if he is a declared candidate?
Based on the argument that Democrats used during their impeachment farce, even asking Ukraine for an investigation of Hunter Biden was an “abuse of power,” because Joe Biden was likely to be a candidate in 2020 (he wasn’t at the time).
I’m guessing that Democrats will say this is “different,” mostly because it would be them doing the investigating and they never hold themselves to the same standard as they hold Republicans. But would it violate any laws to try to investigate and even jail Trump, even if he were running? It wouldn’t be very unifying, but the whole unity thing is a farce anyway. On the other hand, it might set off some serious violence, so that would be a good reason to avoid it…
Priscilla.
That is a good question about the investigation. There seems to be, and I have read many times over the years, that there is an unwritten agreement between the parties that once a president or his administration leaves office that criminal investigations are not created.
Why? Because pay backs can be worse than the first investigation. And the issue with Clinton not getting charged with anything supported by the comments that Comey made kind of supported that thinking by those that have written about it.
I do not know if that is speculation or if that is fact. But one thing for sure, if any president gets investigated after leaving office and any charges come out of that investigation, then it could lead to one result. The next investigation by the opposition party is going to be far worse.
This article touches on that thinking.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/10/case-criminally-investigating-ex-president/616804/
Agree. Trump has many issues, but one of his biggest is he will NOT admit he was wrong in any way. All court case results kept under wraps – he walks out smiling – and I know personally of other cases that never got to court because his lawyers presented piles of unrelated crap to go through, and small businesses could not financially continue.
Isn’t it wonderful that he can pay people who paid for an education in his now defunct school got only a small percentage of their outlay, and he had a tax deduction for that payment? The man has a financial history – a bad one! He’s done that now to our country’s budget & reaping rewards.
“Trump has many issues, but one of his biggest is he will NOT admit he was wrong in any way.”
So what – have we heard admissions of error from democrats ? Those on the left ?
“All court case results kept under wraps – he walks out smiling – and I know personally of other cases that never got to court because his lawyers presented piles of unrelated crap to go through, and small businesses could not financially continue.”
I am glad you know this “personally” – how about some reason to beleive you are credible ?
I am sure Trump’s lawyers use every single technique that every other high end law firm does to protect their clients.
Again – so what ?
If you have a credible claim against Trump – go setup a gofundme account and go after him. You will likely get some of the best left lawyers in the nation – probably pro bono.
Regardless, the courts are not a vehicle by which you are entitled to violate the privacy of others.
“Isn’t it wonderful that he can pay people who paid for an education in his now defunct school got only a small percentage of their outlay, and he had a tax deduction for that payment?”
I am surprised he settled – Trump sold people his “secret sauce” – turns out his “secret sauce” was motivational speakers.
Guess what – drive and determination ARE the “secret sauce” of success.
Go to any bookstore. There is a huge section of “get rich quick” scheme books. Guess what ? Nearly all of them WORK – albeit not so fast and requiring alot of work, and most people do not have the drive to follow through.
“The man has a financial history – a bad one! ”
Given that big banks still lend him hundreds of millions – you are pretty obviously wrong. I know you think otherwise, but the fact is that banks do not just write huge loans.
In one of my many jobs I do what is called “due dilligence” work.
If a business buys, sells or refinances a commercial property a whole army of people are called in to examine the deal.
There is typically an independent appraiser – is the property worth what the owner claims. There is an ESA – are there unknown environmental risks to the property ? There is a PCA – what is the condition of the property – what will its future maintance costs be.
I have done PCA’s for mobile home parks. I have done PCA’s for 2million square ft warehouses. I have done PCA’s for $100M+ buildings on Park Ave in NYC.
Contra left wing nuts – banks and insurance companies are extremely careful with their money.
“He’s done that now to our country’s budget & reaping rewards.”
I would agree that Republicans generally – Trump included have proven to be hypocritical about deficits, and cutting government spending.
I expected better of Trump and the GOP. Unfortunately they have most of us over a barrel – no matter how bad Republicans are fiscally – democrats are worse.
Regardless, Trump and the Trump family lost money while Trump was president. That is pretty well documented.
You can not say the same about Biden as vice president.
I doubt Biden is the most corrupt politician ever to be president.
But we have never knowingly elected a president this corrupt.
Robby,
Why is it that only the claims of republicans are dangerous in robby world ?
We all listened to 4 years of nonsense that Russian had hacked out elections and that the Trump campaign colluded.
Were you asking people to stop spreading such dangerous false disinformation ?
With respect to this election, dealing with all of this would have been easy.
All that was necescary was for those running the elections to follow the actual law.
They did not. If you disagree – I would suguest that you google PA Act 77, that is the 2019 bipartisan election reform bill that Gov. Wolf, democrats and republicans all worked out together. Though I have issues with it – all the “moderates” here should see it as a perfect example of bi-partisan compromise and cooperation.
So what is the problem ? In PA Wolf, and the Wolf administration and democratic election officials, and the PA Supreme Court OPENLY ignored major anti-=-fraud provisions of the law.
That is PA. There are similar issues in other states.
All of what you are upset about is a consequence of that.
If you did not want all these claims – the answer was to FOLLOW THE LAW.
To be clear the failure to follow election laws across the country and particularly in 5 major cities in swing states is not some “fake news”. It is indisputable.
Failure to follow the election law is fraud. PERIOD.
I have zero problems with people claiming this election was fraudulent – because that is the facts.
Does that mean Biden did not actually win ? I think so, but that is not a proven fact.
That is something that can only be determined by serious inquiry. That has near universally been thwarted.
That is what the GA state department promised.
You can find Raffensberger on Youtube saying that GA was going to re-canvas, audit, and hand recount the entire election. They did not.
Right now there are hundreds of claims of fraud and misconduct.
Some are dubious – most (not all) of the “benford’s law” claims are complete crap.
Benford’s law does not apply to sequences of numbers that have intrinsic underlying patterns – or where it does, the law works differently.
But for the fact that Sydney Powell and Lin Wood are making it, I would dismiss the DVS claim. The huge problem with the DVS claim is that it is trivial to test. And that is also why it is almost certain to be untrue. All that is needed to settle the DVS claim is to randomly audit DVS systems – my guess is a first pass random audit of a dozen DVS systems in Georgia would be a sufficient first pass. Hand count all the ballots that each machine counted and compare the results. If the Claim of Fraud is valid – atleast one system will with near certainty show significant error.
The other troubling issue regarding the DVS Fraud claim is that DVS has not sent a cease and Desist order to Powell. The claim is defamatory, and the only defense is truth.
If Powell’s claim is false – that is the end of her career, she will be bankrupted by a successful defamation claim. But DVS has not sent C&D’s or filed a defamation claim.
That bothers me ALOT.
If True – which SHOULD be unlikely, the DVS claim is gargantuan. So far the “play” seems to be to deny Powell any opportunity to test it, and hope it goes away. That is NOT the best approach for DVS or Biden. If the DVS claim is not dealt with it will dog DVS and Biden forever.
But there are myriads of other claims – there are upwards of 200 affadavits now of either first hand observations of election misconduct or directions to engage in misconduct.
Some of these are small scale, Some are very large. Some are unprovable, but very many are testable.
So why aren’t we doing so ?
We do not need legislative hearings. We do not need court preliminary hearings.
We need real court inquiries into allegations and facts. Put the witnesses under oath,
And call others who were present and get their testimony.
If you do not do these things – at best this will dog Biden through his presidency.
There are other issues here. It took over a year but ultimately the evidence of fraud int he 2016 NH election became known. 5500 People in NH were allowed to vote on election day despite not being able to prove NH residency at the time. Over the next year NH was able to confirm that 2000 of them were actually NH residents at the time. But not any of the remaining 3500. These people did not get a drivers license, buy a car, buy a home, or do anything that created a record that they lived in NH. They did not respond to state inquiries.
It is highly likely that most of these are fraud. That could easily have tipped the NH senate election, and possibly the presidential election.
The same information is being examined regarding GA, NV, WI, PA, ….
We will not know who they voted for, but it is highly likely that we will know the number of illegal ballots cast in all these states, and it is likely we will know sooner rather than later.
There is much better data available to those challenging the election that in the past.
The norm for first time mailin elections is a 20% rejection rate for various ballot errors – some of which are innocent but some of which are evidence of fraud. And there is no way to tell the innocent mistakes from fraudulent ballots.
The norm for absentee ballots is a 6% rejection rate.
The Rejection rate in PA – despite the toughest Mailin Ballot laws in the country – you were required to have a signature on the envelope as well as a Drivers license or PA ID number, and they were required to match – was 0.25%. A 2% rejection rate would throw PA to Trump.
The last thing I would suggest to you is that:
Sunlight is the best disinfectant. If this continues as it is – Biden will be sworn in. But he will face lingering doubts by many through his term, and absolute certainty that he participated in fraud by many others.
You and others are right to fear violence – and that is precisely why you can not keep hiding from this. You needed to have open inquiry. That is what precludes violence.
Not idiotic claims that people should refrain from making allegations of fraud when the election was conducted lawlessly and no serious inquiry was done.
One final thought – violence is not the only or most likely possibility.
I have an apartment building. I recieved the ballot applications for almost a decade of former tenants. I would have had no problem applying for a ballot for them and voting for them by mail. Further there is no chance that I would get caught.
I am a scrupulously honest person and I threw away all applications that were not from me.
But in 2022 and 2024 – it is likely that lots of republicans will NOT do the same.
And that is small scale. It would be simple and require very few resources for a small number of people to submit 100,000 or more fraudulent mailin ballots.
Just like in the California Ballot Harvesting – anything democrats can do, history shows us Republicans figure out how to do better.
Priscilla, may I ask where you got the information on Barr’s statement. I have seen nothing like this.
Not sure which one you mean, but easy enough to answer both. The report that said that the DOJ had not found any fraud on a large enough scale to change the election results, came from the AP, and was widely reported by every mainsteam outlet.
The clarification from the DOJ was not reported in the mainstream news, at least nowhere that I could find it, but it was reported in most conservative and neutral outlets.
https://www.newsmax.com/politics/doj-william-barr-fraud-ballots/2020/12/02/id/999639/
Here’s another (I didn’t want to use Redstate, because, well, it’s REDstate, lol. But it’s a more detailed article, so if you’re so inclined:
https://redstate.com/jeffc/2020/12/02/william-barr-voter-fraud-remarks-n288026
These downplay the idea of voter fraud. NP also has other statements from Barr asserting that the only claims not looked into would not change the outcome.
What you showed really says nothing different from NP. Just different wording… and this is concurred by Red State.
AP has been acclaimed as the most unbiased reference, including fact checkers, and has not changed.
I don’t think we disagree on this, rondbellelane. The AP did not mis-report the story, that was never my point. My point was simply that mainstream news outlets all reported the story the same, exact way ~ that the election fraud story was “case closed” and that Bill Barr had said so. That narrative was so pervasive that the DOJ had come out and clarify that no, it was not “case closed.” The part that only Newsmax and Redstate included was that last part.
These days, if you only rely on mainstream sources for your news, you will never know the whole story. Similarly,if you rely on just right wing sources, you won’t get the whole story either. And both sides hear lies and nonsense about the other side, and believe it, driving the two sides further and further apart.
You actually said something similar. I was actually agreeing with you when I gave the Bill Barr example.
Google is your friend.
There have been several clarifications – from Barr himself, From DOJ, as well as from Barr;’s statements in the AP interview beyond the soundbite the left fixated on.
DOJ investigations into election fraud are ongoing.
There are many allegations that are not applicable to DOJ.
Only criminal fraud would be a DOJ matter.
DOJ would likely not have any involvement in procedural matters – such as the failure of states or election officials to follow their own laws. Those are wrong, could alter the election outcome but are not criminal fraud.
As an example the failure of states to reject illegal even fraudulent ballots is a violation of state law. But it is not a crime – federal or otherwise.
Anyway Barr has confirmed DOJ is still investigating. 9
Priscilla, Biden’s son was investigated once, and then again. Nothing. Trump will be charged. First by NY.
He has already hinted at pardoning both himself & his family – completely unprescidented! Nonetheless, that would cover federal, but not state prosecution.
Trump was impeached, but the Republican Senate did their ‘thing’ and he was not removed.
No Ron – that is false.
The first actual investigation of Hunter Biden did not start until Dec 2019. That investigation is still underway. Devon Archer has plead guilty in parts of that investigation.
Trump was impeached – and the Hunter Biden Laptop files make clear how fraudulent that impeachment was.
There was more than enough basis for Trump to do everything that democrats allege that he did. The Senate did not “do their thing” – they saved Biden’s ass. Had the Senate allowed witnesses – the Biden’s would have been called. Niether Joe not Hunter would survive that.
Trump is not going to pardon himself or his family – though I do expect mass pardon’s shortly – that is pretty normal.
You are correct that a federal pardon does not preclude state prosecution.
So far NYAG is shooting blanks.
And efforts by Biden to investigate Trump will really go over Bad.
You do not know how angry many people are over all of this.
The Obama administration ACTUALLY spied on journalists, senators, including democrats and an opposing political campaign. This nonsense continued for 3 years into the Trump presidency.
Conversely there was no post election investigation of Hillary, or Biden, or Obama.
Like dumping the fillibuster if you go forward with having DOJ/FBI investigate Trump, you can be damn well sure that the next time Republicans control the WH – that every breathing democrat will be investigated.
Barr was brought in to clean up the DOJ and FBI.
I beleive he started that process, but is nowhere near complete.
If that is undone there will be hell to pay soon enough.
You expect us to beleive you are a moderate ?
47% of the country beleives this election was likely stolen.
One in six Biden voters would have changed their vote according to polls inquiring into the effect of the media efforts to squelch Biden’s scandals.
Only 42% of independents and less than 47% of the country supported impeaching Trump – much less removing him.
You do not have to support Trump to be moderate.
You can even support Biden.
But you can not have your head in the sand.
Priscilla.
And the issue of an investigation by New York and his taxes, I would be very surprised if anything is found. The tax attorneys and the tax accountants he used were not small companies. They are large firms and those firms do not put the partners at risk by knowingly filing fraudulent tax returns.
I could very likely be wrong, charges may be filed, but a guilty verdict will be hard to come by IMO.
The tax claims have always been ludicrous.
I doubt they will even go to trial.
Worst daily covid US death toll yesterday. That record will be surpassed again and again. Final death toll in US of what, half a million? Meanwhile, on the news in trump GOP world, Trump set to headline Georgia rally. In South Dakota the GOP dingbat trump clone in the middle of a medical catastrophe shows true GOP leadership and urges people to go on a shopping spree. Forget calling this the china virus, it’s the trump/noem virus.
In the last 4 years a hundred foot layer of stupid has settled like volcanic ash from an orange volcano on the country. It will take a long time to wash it away and never be forgotten.
..
Roby, you were one of the left of center posters here when Jay and Dave were having their marathon spitting contests that was reasonable in comments. This one is more like Jay than “Roby”
Take a look at this information. And from this page you can drill down on any state.
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/new-cases-50-states
Look at New York, California and North Carolina. None of those states had any big political rallies except N.C. then end of October in one county visited by Trump. All of these states have had personal behaviors under some governmental controls. All of these states are having significant increases.. Then look at S.D., N.D., WY. All had a surge, now are reducing. All have had personal responsibility as the main control of the virus.
My point. Government is not going to control personal actions unless it is a government like China. Families that follow government did not have thanksgiving dinners. Other families did. If fact 50.6 million people, then same number as in 2017 traveled, no visited in the same town, friend, relatives and amusement parks over Thanksgiving. Are all of these 50.6M Trumpnuts? I doubt it.
Our local channel rebroadcast an article concerning college students from Penn State. Somehow they had every kids phone lit up to track. The town was aglow. Then the day after class let out, those same phones were spread out across the country.
So is the virus spread by large gatherings of Trumpasses, or is the virus spread by people who follow make decisions based on their own personal wants and needs regardless of outcomes?
Looking at the JH data and the holiday travel info, I believe much is people making decisions and to hell with government.
Ron, I get your point. I am having a daily trump hemorrhage here. Sorry, I’ll have pity, I will stop that. The &^%$#@* won’t just do the appropriate thing and act presidential for his last month and a half and then go away. And he has dragged tens of millions of people into his delusional state with him. I am quite worried about what some of the least sane of them will do with their stockpiles of weapons when Biden is chosen by the electoral college. So, I am pretty worked up. I want to forget trump. I want to never type his name again after Biden is inaugurated. I think he will slowly become a bad memory and will not run again. He is a ticking time bomb for the GOP, let them spend their time thinking about him, not me.
My remarks in my earlier post today do stand and I do not think there is anything at all extreme about them.
Roby, please understand I would never have voted for Trump had the democrats given us a choice that I could accept and the GOP not given us Trump to begin with. It is hell when one has to vote against another candidate and not have a good choice to vote for.
It is just the views one holds as to the lasting damage one or the other may have on the country. Your view is different than mine.
But I would hope that after January we can comment and debate policies and actions of Biden and not go off like so many have with Trump
I only comment about Trump from why I think he is doing what he is doing, not that I support what he is doing.
And you asked multiple times why are the republicans in office not challenging him. Today I read a very good article that popped up from some other link that explained that in a very clear and short statement. Anyone that challenges Trump today will be ending their career. He has the ability now to destroy anyone that goes against him in the party. That is what happens when a loser still has the strong support from the fringe of the party until they finally leave. only those like Romney and Collins that challenged him earlier and survived in Utah and Maine can do it now.
Regarding your thoughts about COVID, I appreciate that you have data behind your ideas about government and COVID spread but I don’t agree with you about the connection between government actions and COVID. I will find some time and give the statistics a good look over the next few days. I am not an epidemiologist or a virologist but I do have a doctorate in cell and molecular biology and I have had plenty of exposure in my schooling to relevant knowledge about viruses and immunology. It is very, very hard to find easy explanations of the patterns and locations of the worst outbreaks without doing a massive amount of reading. Some things are intuitive though, like the stupidity of huge gatherings where people are in close proximity and most of them do not wear masks, How many WH staffers and people in trumps orbit have contracted COVID? How many people did these people then spread it to, who then spread it to someone else and on and on? How many people less famous than Herman Cain died from this reckless disregard of science and common sense? How many millions of trump followers patterned their attitude towards COVID precautions after his reckless macho one and spread the virus? How many of them got the level of treatment he got? trump has a lot to answer for on this. Anyhow, Iam sorry to rant again, I will make that my last trump rant unless he foments an armed rebellion.
Although you have explained your ideas before I am still not reading you about government’s role regarding masks etc.. You want facemasks mandated by the state and you want that enforced by the state, unless I misremember or misunderstand. Obviously you believe that facemasks are a useful tool and you wear one yourself and avoid places where people are not wearing them, I remember that. So, I would think that the way things are being handled in SD would not fit your idea of how to fight COVID and I would think you would understand my opinion about their mini trump Governor.
GW Bush met the angry families of every soldier killed while he was president who blamed him. He had the guts to personally face every one of them. I think that Noem should personally face the angry relatives of the 1000 people who have died in her state if they ask to see here while she put personal freedom over being a responsible citizen. Is she responsible for every death? Not nearly. Is she responsible for some of them? Absolutely. How many? We will never know. I think she should go to all the COVID funerals. I think she should go and spend a few weeks as a volunteer in the COVID treatment area at a large hospital and witness the people fighting for their lives and the people dying. Then we could see whether she would have the same opinion of the balance between freedom and responsibility.
Roby, you are correct. I do believe that mask work, If a governor within the state makes a “mandate” that everyone throughout the state wears one, then I think it is total stupidity to not have a fine for not wearing one. What the hell good is it to say “Please be good boys and girls, wear a mask because I say so”? Compare that to a mandate with a $250 fine for first offense, $500 for second, etc. How many more would mask up if they had to pay, just like ticket or click it.
However, I just shared data on cases in North Carolina by county. I believe that N.C.’s governor should put the fines in place where a certain number of daily cases are occurring. It should not be the responsibility of the business owners to make people mask up and they should not be the ones being fined as is the case.. It also does no good in public places in close contact with others and it is not a business. However, I do not see any benefit of mask in the 14 counties I mentioned since there are no cases or just one or two now and then popping up. Once a certain criteria is met for daily cases, then the mask would be required, with the fines for not wearing one.
As for South Dakota, it appears that she is still standing strong. 63.8% of men and overall 53.8% either approve or strongly approve of her handling her office. Women are less likely to support her, but that should be expected.And one might add that her grandmother just died from Covid in a nursing home like so many others.
https://www.capjournal.com/politics/red-state-south-dakota-poll-shows-noem-standing-strong/article_fb4e9a70-261f-11eb-ac81-7be7d8607f47.html
Ron, I do not care if people vote for trump as long as they are not trump cultists who can see no fault in him or only the tiniest ones and just give him their loving support no matter what wretched thing he does. That kind of trump voter makes me crazy. My two other band members probably voted for trump. (The band is now on hold at my suggestion until the world returns to normal.)
I am sure you and I will not agree much about Biden’s policies. But at least you do not see him in the same absurd caricature of criminality and senility as many GOP voters do. The chances that we will be able to find a middle ground we can both tolerate will be better if the GOP holds the Senate. I am pretty much expecting both the GOP candidates to win in the Georgia run off despite all the commotion and craziness. I would be happiest with a split by a close vote in each for a final 51-49 GOP lead. I actually think that Biden and McConnell have a history of being able to work together and I think it is best for the country that both parties have some part of the power. If the Dems win both Georgia seats I still do not think that the Biden years will be a progressive era at all, but there will be more pressure on Biden from the progressives to throw them some successes and more feelings of being totally screwed by conservatives.
I want the progressive influence to wither; their beliefs resemble mine in some areas, but taken to the point of absurdity. A $93 trillion green new deal! (Did they mean billion but just can’t count?) The rich will pay for everything (but the rich are evil and must be eliminated leaving who? to pay for everything?) These people have no understanding of economics or politics or in general, of what America is and isn’t. Oh, I would move America to the left in some ways, or away from the right at least, but slightly and cautiously. You might say that I would boil conservatives slowly. But I would never move it very far to the left, so don’t give up on me.
Sanders very greatly helped to drive this country into the state it is now, he drove the right crazy and then got them elected at one fell swoop.
Without Sanders, there would have never been a trump presidency. You think its Obama who caused it, I don’t. I think its Sanders.
..Roby..
Who really knows why Trump appealed to so many. Could be Sanders.All the stars lined up perfectly to bring out 25-30% previously uninterested voters to get him a start and it took off from there.
But Obama was the reason I came out from the silent middle and sometime voter and became more vocal.Why?
1) Obamacare force making everyone buy a private companies product that helped lead companies like United Healthcare to record profits since they sold large numbers of private and employers plans, but did not sell Obamacare plans until recently.
2) Comments like “They get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.” Translation, white middle class males and their wives that don’t think like inner city black folk.
And again just the last couple days he now blames middle class America when he criticized Americans for liking “cheap gas and big cars” more than they care about “the environment” – even during a catastrophic event like the 2010 Deepwater Horizon oil spill.” …He has no idea why people drive big SUV’s when his last car was a Chrysler 300 (Mid 2000 model) and now he and his family either travels by limo or huge GMC black SUV’s. Try taking a vacation from Ohio to Disney World with 2 middle school kids in a Prius.
So for me, he blamed middle class America. He still does. For everything bad when his knowledge of middle class America is like middle class America’s knowledge of what its like being a black man in America..
“So for me, he blamed middle class America. He still does. For everything bad when his knowledge of middle class America is like middle class America’s knowledge of what its like being a black man in America.”
Great comment, Ron. I really appreciate your ability to identify ~ in few words, no less!~ the reason why Obama pushed millions of people toward populism and libertarianism.
I have thought a great deal about the reasons why Donald Trump, in particular, became the benficiary of the frustration and fury of the middle class, and in particular the entreprenurial middle class. I see now, in the abusive lockdowns which are resulting in the destruction of small businesses, and in the increasing dominance of giant corporations like Amazon, the future that many of them feared coming to pass.
Progressivism is dependent upon the government, and those who control it, having near-complete control over any decisions that the citizens make. The concepts of “justice” and “equity,” are key to this. Government decides what is unjust and unequal, and only government is empowered to change it. An empowered middle class, one that believes it is independently free to make decisions regarding property and liberty, is an obstacle that must be overcome or destroyed.
The behavior of C19 throughout the world can be predicted near perfectly by:
Demographics and geography.
UV levels,
Temperature,.
Humidity.
Population density
Diet.
Life expectancy – higher life expectance results in higher death rates, because there are more old people and C19 likes old people.
While there are comorbitity issues most of these really have to do specifically with the elderly. The general effect of comorbities is dramatically lower than the age preference of C19.
Put simply if you are old and unhealthy and you get C19 – your risk is very very high. If you are either old or unhealthy it is still not that bad.
Despite the large number of deaths attributed to C19 – there has not been a significant spike in US total deaths in 2020.
Put simply most of the people C19 kills were going to die anyway
2.8M people die in the US each year.
Robby,
Rant on about Covid.
Please – what country in the world has demonstrably done better than the US ?
The EU has had nearly the same total number of cases as the US.
It has had 50% more deaths than the US.
In the US the 2020 total deaths from all causes is barely different from the past 5 year average.
2.8M people die in the US every year.
Atleast 90% of C19 deaths are people who would have died within 6 months regardless.
43% of those infected have no symptoms at all – Data from Iceland but confirmed many places. Most of those who are infected and have symptoms – have symptoms less severe than the flu.
The accepted mortality rate (in the west) for C19 is 2-3 times that of the flu.
The major issue is that it is 2-3 times more contageous than the flu. ‘
No nation anywhere ever has stopped the flu or any other respiratory virus without a vaccine.
The good news is that thanks to free markets and Trump we now have 3 – with more coming.
Further we now know that normal Vitamin D levels are as effective at preventing C19 as the vaccines. They also dramatically mitigate it if you get it.
If you get severe C19 and are given Vitamin D analog’s immediately – in studies so far you have a 100% chance of recovery – NOTHING else works that well.
Though HCQ is not even close to as effective – there are now 150+ studies world wide indicating that HCQ is effective both propholactically and as treatment – but not nearly as effective as Remedsivir or monoclonal antibodies or Vitamin D analogues.
Beyond the 3 existing vaccines there is another vaccine that is 77% effective available to you right now at your local phamacy – an MMR booster.
Several studies have found that the MMR vaccine confers as much immunity to Covid as the Flu Vaccine does to the flu.
My wife and I got an MMR booster last week. It is free.
The provider at CVS said that they were told they would get the first C19 vaccines in two weeks – a week ago.
I beleive Pfiser shipped 20M doses to the US. It is likely we will see the same numbers in short order From Moderna and Astra-Zenica.
Before Biden is inaugurated it is likely that as many as 100M americans will be vaccinated for C19.
Would you like to make a bet on that 500K deaths number ?
I would absolutely agree that in the last 4 years a layer of stupidity has descended on the country – but it did not come from Trump. It came from the left, and the media.
Your still ranting about Covid. Well guess what – New York is getting walloped again.
The population of NY and FL are nearly the same. FL has more elderly people NY has twice the deaths of FL. NY has taken some of the most stringent steps in the country.
FL among the least.
There are only a few possibilities Robby:
1). Covid hates democrats.
2). Covid is worse in states with lockdowns and masking policies.
3). Covid varies based on temperature, Sunlight, humidity and other demographic factors – NOT POLICIES.
4). Magic
BTW we do not have to use FL and NY – the same comparison will work between any northern lockdown state and any southern state that has been relatively lockdown free.
You complain about the stupidity that has purportedly descended on the country – but you are unable to confront the reality that you may have bought false narratives.
Your failures – are somehow Trump’s Fault.
You were deceived – by many of the same people Biden is not appointing into beleiving that Trump and Russia colluded to steal the 2016 election. You are still unable to let go of that.
You are unable to accept that you have been lied to by people you trust, and that you in turn have repeated those lies.
This same pattern has been repeated over and over again.
It does not matter what the issue – you are out of touch with reality – please seek help.
There are no tools to deal with Your TDS. Though frankly this really has nothing to do with Trump. A more accurate label would be LWDS – Left Wing Nut Derangement Syndrome.
I have been debating with you from before Trump. Though it has been a very lopsided debate. Facts, Logic Reason vs. your fallacies – if I am lucky.
If you have decided the sun will not rise tomorow, and you will not be moved by facts, logic or reason. There is nothing that can be done for you.
“Pandemic –> reopened society. Goes without saying: we all want our freedom back. But it can’t happen until we’re vaccinated. Meanwhile, wear those masks and keep your distance!”
Good advice
but as the surge in cases increase across the country, more and more one hears that a national program to curtail cases should take place. If not that, then states should lockdown activities to curtail cases in their states.
But the nation is just like North Carolina. The attached is the latest update of cases by county within North Carolina.
https://www.wral.com/coronavirus/north-carolina-coronavirus-cases-maps-graphs-live-updates/19010016/
When you open, move down to the middle of the page and covid cases by county will begin to show. Make sure it has “show all counties” checked and has “fixed axis” highlighted.
In looking at these charts, one will see that Mecklenburg County, Guilford County, Wake County and Forsyth County have a high degree of new daily cases. Toggle down to the last couple rows and one will see counties like Hyde and Tyrrell with almost no cases since this began in March. In fact, the last 14 counties listed have had few cases since this began.
So the questions asked is why should these counties be covered by the same economically disastrous policies as in Mecklenburg, Guilford, Wake and Forsyth? And the same hold true for those promoting a national policy that places these same disastrous regulations on counties in N.C. based on activities in Los Angeles, Miami and Houston. Does that really make sense?.
Vermont was one of the bright spot states where things were going well. That time has passed, we are seeing record numbers of new cases and people are dying again, which they were not over the summer. Montana, where my father is, was also doing quite well, now it is not and people are dying at a much higher rate, including in his residence. No place is isolated, today’s fortunate area is tomorrow’s trouble spot.
Every state or significant area that takes this lightly then gets a surge and those people travel around the country and spread COVID. Sturgis In SD attracted 500 000 people from all 50 states for a week of mask free partying followed by dispersing back to their 50 states, in my world that was criminally irresponsible insanity.
There was a half baked study by some economists that was based on bad assumptions and was shot down by credible people, which made over the top predictions of how large the Sturgis impact was for COVID; that put the whole idea of analyzing the impact of Sturgis in a bad light, but there sure as hell WAS a significant impact. Meanwhile the governor is basking the spotlight of her presidential possibilities. Makes me &^%$#@! angry especially since my father lives one state over and his state began to surge not long, a month say, after Sturgis.
Intuitively I would suspect many causes to our present COVID surge catastrophe, schools reopening, the colder winter months coming on, people suffering COVID fatigue regarding safety measures, the election, the protests, and people beginning to travel around the country again.
I understand the economic argument very clearly, I am sympathetic. But 2000+ people per day and climbing is a terrible cost. I am not Solomon and I do not know The Answer. I do know that reckless macho abandon about the personal freedom to do whatever the F someone wants to, large gatherings, rebellion against even the simplest measures are extremely unhelpful and have made a large contribution. Politically one side takes the health concerns more seriously, while the other side takes the economic side more seriously.
We will have a vaccine now in the near future. The more people who will choose to take it the better for everyone. Unfortunately, there is even an ideological bias on that issue, with the left apparently being more willing than the right by 20 or more percentage points in polls I have seen. My daughter who works with COVID patients doing CAT and other imaging, will be getting vaccinated soon mid december, as part of vaccination of hospital staff. That will be a tremendous relief to me.
https://vtdigger.org/?gclid=Cj0KCQiAtqL-BRC0ARIsAF4K3WF8qidiGk_lBlgZmQIjqcxZfzrLIZNSoxSmwCkLBXIl5SLfYchdJPEaAlfaEALw_wcB
Roby, I have no idea what the answer is. My son-in-laws father is extremely over weight, suffers from multiple cases of bronchitis each year and totally ignores guidelines. He could be one of the 2000 and people would say how bad it was he died, but it will be on him only! My daughter just about prohibits her 6 year old daughter with asthma to be around him if not outside.
With our constitution, the United States is just like Europe. Each state is like its own country. South Dakota is like Sweden, California like Germany, each doing their own thing. The only solution is to repeal the 10th amendment in the future so a president could order national regulations. And I suspect there is no way 2/3rds of our states would accept that.
Note how much easier it is to discuss anything now without Jay driving you crazy and Dave driving me crazy.
👍👍
Ron, as you say each state is a its own country in a sense. Each state has its own COVID story. States are not surrounded by walls so those individual stories impact each other. I have been looking at some data trying to come up with a sense of what is happening now, that is, say the last month, last week and last day.
OK I have an ex to grind with SD and I will admit that I am motivated to find data that support my ideologically based case against the leadership of the SD governor. So, I am not a perfectly objective person, at all.
Still, it is very easy to find data that damn Noem’s COVID philosophy. On the CDC site under average daily cases over the last 7 days per capita SD leads the country at 98. In Vermont we have 14. NY and NJ have 45 adn 43, North Carolina has 34.
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#cases_casesper100klast7days
Now, per capita deaths in the last 7 days, agin SD leads the country according to the to-scale comparison charts on the NYtimes site, 116 deaths per 100,000. NJ, 46; NC, 42; NY, 39; Vt, 16. SD new cases are now decreasing. Deaths lag cases for obvious reasons.
I like the NYtimes charts because they show the progression since march as a graph using per 100,000. In this way you can see the individual history of each state. Some peaked early NY NJ Mass, some were low early and are peaking now. Others peaked in the middle of this time period. There is a lot of information in these graphs. You may not like the NYTimes but their analysis of COVID using simply facts is very informative.
Now, cumulative death per 100,000 since march. NJ, NY, Mass, and Connecticut lead, 194, 179, 158, 143, the highly populated states that took the first severe blows before they knew what hit them and before anyone had much idea how to deal with COVID. These states are not currently at high rates, relatively speaking. North Dakota, 129; SD, 117 8th and 9th places but rising. North Carolina, 52; Vermont, 12
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covid19-death-rates-us-by-state/
ND and SD similar states politically, ND got wacked very hard in the last month and then the GOP Governor embraced masks, new cases now down 50%.
In SD Gov. Noem persistently will have none of a mask mandate and is promoting shopping, hunting and enjoying her high popularity and national profile still. Glad I live in Vermont with a very different GOP governor, who BTW is much more popular than Noem and that in a very Blue state.
https://www.grandforksherald.com/newsmd/coronavirus/6784857-Why-are-active-COVID-19-cases-dropping-in-North-Dakota-The-answers-not-that-simple
I won’t claim this was a very deep analysis, but it certainly supports my thought that Gov. Noem, following a trumpian trajectory on COVID, has been insanely irresponsible and is responsible for the deaths of many people in her state. As well, since her state has been the site of huge events like Sturgis, the consequences of her irresponsibility have not been confined to the borders of her state but have extended to every state (which is all 50) where the bikers came from. How many needless deaths outside SD could be traced to her? Not knowable but its not a small number. But, she remains is a popular political figure with GOP voters inside and probably outside SD. Deadly ignorance and stupidity rewarded. Its beyond my comprehension.
Roby, the information you provided was some good data. And I do not question the validity of that data, but I do believe that one needs to dig deep into that data to find actual cause and effect.
But try digging deeper into covid information. Nothing their except raw data.
But I do not agree that the tremendous surge in cases in Los Angeles is due to Sturgis nor is the tripling of case in N.C. in November due to Sturgis.
This crap would have happened no matter what the actions by government unless the feds declared Marshall law, closed everything up, called out the national guard, arrested anyone on the streets and issued directives that people could only be off their property nationwide for an emergency or if your last name started with A-D, grocery shopping on Sunday, E-H, on Monday. etc for a 45-60 day lockdown. Otherwise there would be no controls and the spread would happen. And even then it may not have been controlled.
The cause and effect will take years to determine, and then probably not with huge confidence. Did Sturgis cause the surge and LA or NC? No. obviously not. Was it going to happen without Sturgis? Obviously yes.
But the closer you get to SD the stronger the effect of Sturgis is. Neighboring states could not possibly have not been affected.
As to your last paragraph, you have stated your belief and we are going to have to agree to disagree, but if you really believe that no government action would affect this then I do not understand why you think there should be an enforced state by state or area by area mask mandate.
Its is my belief that having a sane message from the top, from the POTUS and his administration, and a good example would have prevented many many deaths. Instead we got the likes of Dr. Atlas. Why even have a scientific input if its a contrarian nut case? I am a person of science, that iso my background and its my belief. You get better results when people use and respect science, mainstream science, not contrarian science.
Roby, I understand completely your science background. I have the same debates with my pharmacist friend who has that background and is also liberal. It comes down to giving up some liberties for some safety and you are on one side, I am on the other.
But I believe I have been consistent in my positions. I don’t support a lot of the regulations some governors have issued, like the recent 10:00 p.m. curfew counties can enact like LA county has done. I don’t believe this is a zombie virus that is more dangerous after 10:00 than before. But I dont live in LA so it doesn’t make a difference to me. However,
But I support the states rights to make regulations within their states because that is what the voters chose. If they do not want mask, that is their choice. If they require mask, that is also their choice. Only when our constitution is changed can a multi-state regulation be issued and if that is what people want, that is their choice.
BUT, I have also said that a mandate without enforcement is useless! Government found that out many years ago when they decided fines for not wearing helmets or seat belts were needed. A mask mandate without enforcement is no better than a condom with holes.
So maybe I have changed and if so, let me know, but I don’t believe I have been consistent.
How about hanging this one up and wait for ricks next article or some significant happening from the Biden administration to begin another discussion?
If you wish to piss on Noem – are you going to piss all over all the Blue state governors with much higher C19 death rates per Million ?
We have been through this over and over. There are now numerous studies beyond the one I cited months ago.
C19 does not care at all about lockdowns, or other government policy measures.
Many studies – including large scale ones in the real world in denmark have found a negliable effect of masks. No one has found any sustainable benefit in lockdowns or any other public policies.
You can rant all you want Gov. Noem has no ability to thwart Covid.
Nor does Cuomo – BTW NY Infections have spike again and are back to April levels.
Though NY death rates for the moment remain low – about 60/day.
BTW if you have actual credible data on Sturgis – provide it.
You speculation is less credible than the claims of election fraud.
I would be more impressed with your background in biology if you had been correct about ANYTHING regarding C19 thus far.
Sturgis is mostly an outdoor event – there is a fight at the moment over whether C19 outdoor spread is low, or completely non-existant. No matter what C19 outdoor spread – particularly during the day is quite uncommon.
The actually identified C19 cases accross the US tied to Sturgis is about 300.
Sturgis took place in early August. That is also a time of high temps, low humidity and high UV – horrible conditions for C19. There was no rise in SD until September and no consequential rise until much later.
I would be impressed if your or the so called experts claims had any relation at all to the data.
Priscilla, 3000 americans died of covid and nearly 3000 the day before that. Next week the counts will be higher. That is a lot of heartbreak at Christmas, or at any time. Meanwhile, you are worked up about progressives and “abusive” lockdowns. Yes right and left have different ideas and priorities. The economic recovery depends on the covid recovery, any intelligent person understands that.
In South Dakota, where the governor thinks like you do 83 people died of covid on Friday. In vermont, where they think like I do the death toll was 1. We are a tourist dependent economy and are located a few hours drive from boston and nyc. Our population is 2/3 of that of SD, SD is in the middle of nowhere, we have had77 covid deaths almost all in the early spring. SD has 1000 and climbing rapidly.
Yes my story is over simplified. All the same I am very thankful I live in the very liberal state of Vermont and not some right-wing freedom obsessed state.
Ok, some of my numbers are a bit too high. I’d have been more accurate saying that nearly 3000 deaths were registered on those days. Hi I was off on 83 in SD. Highest was 53. But I was low on total deaths in SD. It’s 1091.
C19 in SD peaked and is falling. SD did not see consequential C19 in the spring with the rest of the country.
SD’s overall mortality rate is 123/100,000,
NJ is 194, NY is 183. MA is 162.
There is not a red state in the top 5, There is not a southern state.
Regardless, If you insist on simple analysis as you typically are – states that locked down did worse than those that did not, Blue states did worse than red ones.
The reality is that C19 does not care about politics, or policy.
Numerous studies have found in the real world over the long run – it does not care about masks either.
It cares about UV, it cares about humidity, It cares about temperature,
And it cares about demographics. It kills more in afluent countries with high standards of living where unhealthy people can afford to live beyond the lifespan normal for their health. If does not like darker skinned people.
Pretty much everything about C19 can be predicted with great accuracy with only geography and demographics.
Put simply it has laughed at most of our efforts to thwart it.
It does not care about experts. It does not care about leftist science. It does not care about politics.
Roby, the CDC has abandoned tradition and has treated COVID differently than every other disease. For a death to be considered a COVID death, COVID no longer needs to be the immediate or underlying cause of death. A death is considered a COVID death even if COVID was only a contributing condition, and often even when there has been no actual positive covid test, but respiratory symptoms are present in the patient who has died. These are called “probable” COVID deaths, and hospitals receive the higher Medicare allocation allowed under the CARES Act for those deaths. The difference is significant: non COVID pneumonia deaths get a $5000 payment, COVID pneumonia deaths get $39,000.
Singapore, for example, only counts deaths as COVID deaths if they are accompanied by pneumonia. If the United States followed this criterion, COVID deaths would total about 90,000 and be comparable to a very bad flu season. “Singapore sticks rigidly to the WHO’s case definition for classifying COVID-19 deaths. It does not include non-pneumonia fatalities like those caused by blood or heart issues among COVID-19 patients in its official tally.”
https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-singapore-explainer-idUSKBN2680TF
I was just reading about your state the other day, which has this month passed 4,000 cases, almost half of which have come in the last 3 weeks, and about half of those have come from nursing homes. Thankfully, deaths have been low, as they have been in SD. Vermont’s cumulative death rate as of today is 1.6%, South Dakota’s very slightly less at 1.3%. Compare those to NY at 5% and NJ at 4.8% ( I get my stats from covidusa.net). And SD never shut down at all, while NY and NJ have had hard lockdowns for months ~ trust me, they are not “freedom-obsessed” states! And there are, unfortunately, increasing lockdown mortality rates as well: suicide, overdose, missed diagnoses of cancers, heart disease, etc.
So, while I understand that it is difficult to identify all of the factors at play here, I think it’s safe to say that making all of this about red/blue politics is not at all accurate or well-advised. It’s hard to compare apples to apples, especially when there are so many variables to consider.
We constantly here from the left that we should follow the science – as they completely ignore the science.
We have debated C19 here extensively for over a year. So far I have been right far more often than I have been wrong. There are actual experts with a better track record than I have – but none of them are the experts the media, and the left mean when they talk able science and experts.
The actual science from the very begining has been that every single public policy measure we have taken has been purely to protect the health system.
Yet nowhere have we even come close to exceeding normal capacity – much less actual emergency conditions capacity.
Basically we have engaged in destructive stupidity regarding C19 to accomplish nothing.
You note the way C19 deaths are counted. A more telling statistic is the overall 2020 mortality. From what i can tell – the CDC is hiding data it used to make readily available, the US total deaths todate are only slightly ahead of the average for the past 5 years.
There is lots and lots of evidence that C19 primarly kills those that are going to die soon anyway – and this bias is enormous.
Both now and from the start of C19 in March, Flu has been WAY down. It is as if Flu has been completely replaced by C19.
Regardless, Flu infections and deaths are barely 1/2 a normal year.
That could be because C19 is litterally displacing the Flu, or because the Flu is being confused with C19 or because those who get seriously sick with the Flu also get C19.
Which does not matter.
Please.
Biden is not “plucky”.
This could be our first zombie president.
If anything is good news about Biden it is the hope that he will do very little of consequence.
The most serious danger of a Biden presidency is that the same children who have been burning and looting all summer will be in charge – an unfortunately there is some evidence of that.
Regardless, I am not especially concerned. I expect a Biden presidency to be a short lived disaster.
Biden faces an impossible task, impossible and conflicting expectations.
I may wish him well, but I am not so stupid as to expect that he has a chance.
First he must make the economy work.
We have seen 3 years of a Trump economy. We have also seen that V shaped recoveries are possible. We have seen that unemployment can go down to unheard of levels, and we have seen that those gains can benefit those near the bottom.
Biden can not bring back the Obama economy. No one will tolerate it.
Worse still he can not give those on the left that he owes big time much of anything – without an economy worse than Obama’s.
There are no magical incantations that make leftist economics actually work.
Pleasant words and cheerleading do not make for a vibrant economy.
Biden needs a miracle – and I mean a real miracle – he needs the impossible.
He needs policies that do not work to magically work.
I would be happy to be proven wrong. I will become a communist, if you can actually make communism work.
But I am not stupid. Biden’s position is hopeless.
Hyper partisanship.
I have addressed this repeatedly in the past.
Once upon a time, on this blog, I have argued that our divisions are not irreconcliable.
I was wrong.
What you are calling “hyperpartisanship” is entirely a one sided problem.
I do not expect republicans in the Senate or in any state in this country – especially the “swing states” that decided this election to cooperate with democrats in the future.
Democrats and the left have proven entirely untrustworthy.
There are myriads of examples – but Pennsylvania is a case in point.
We can debate whether Biden actually won the election or how much fraud there was.
There is ZERO debate that the election laws were not followed – not even close.
In PA Act-77 was a bipartisan compromise between legislature republicans and democratic gov. Wolf to rewrite election laws.
Republicans agreed to early voting. No reason absentee ballots, and mailin voting.
In return Democrats agree to end opposition to voter ID and to hard deadlines for voting, and numerous other provisions to ensure trustworthy and fraud free elections.
In the end Democrats got everything they wanted and with the complicity of the courts NONE of the republican constraints were followed.
Forget who the winner in PA in 2020 was – the PA 2020 election was completely lawless.
I would be surprised if the PA legislative majority is willing to work with democrats again for decades.
If I were in the PA legislature right now – I would shut down the entire PA government in response.
You can not engage in bipartisan compromise with people who are not trustworthy.
It is irrelevant how much you want to end hyperpartisanship.
People can not work together without trust.
Trust does not exist.
While republicans leave things to be desired – the left, democrats, the media completely take the cake for lack of trustworthyness.
That is not an easy problem to fix.
Oligarchy.
Really Rick ?
You had the ability to end that – elect Trump. He was beholden to no one but voters.
Republicans were outspent in 2020 nearly 2:1 by democrats.
And what you see is the results – significant GOP gains in the house, a Senate hold and a very narrow Biden victory – if you hold your nose.
GA, AZ and WI were decided by less than 40,000 votes. Flip those states and Biden has 269 electoral votes.
So with Covid, the press burying anything damning about Biden, lockdowns, violence, tech censorship and a mailin election – this is the best democrats – with $10B could do ?
Sorry Rick – I am not convinced by your oligarchy claim.
I am not a big Graham fan, but on this he is right. Democrats (and Wall Street) stacked money in a pile and burned it.
I am not worried about money in elections. I do not think that this election is repeatable.
Roby, Another good article concerning our previous Trump 2024 issue and why GOP members are not speaking out now.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/12/03/trump-2024-election-republicans-442728
Ron,
2024 is a long way off. Frankly I thought the politico article was just more biased crap.
There is all kind of stupid speculation going on.
Biden gaffed recently leaving the impression that he will magically get some disease and resign and let Harris take office. Purportedly even Pelosi has talked about using the 25th amendment to remove Biden, as somehow dumping Biden is in Democrats interests ?
Most all of this I think is total nonsense.
The first thing I will point out that that Trumpism – not specifically Trump now OWNS the GOP.
I am NOT a Trumpism adherent. There are several places I am at odds with Trumpism.
Regardless, The next GOP presidential candidate is going to run on a platform of Trumpism.
Trump has brought an enormous number of Voters to the GOP. Further he has Republicans making inroads into the minority vote. There is very little tweaking of Trumpism that will not cost republicans significant votes.
Whatever you want to call variant Republican positions can flourish regionally. But they can not do so nationally.
You can talk about conflicts between Trump and GOP establishment – but Trump or No Trump, there would have to be cosmic shifts in politics for the next Republican to not Mirror Trump.
I suspect Trump may well announce his candidacy for 2024 if Biden is actually inaugurated.
I suspect he will do so as that will create enormous problems for the Biden administration.
There are way too many left wing nuts who given power are openly going to use it to punish those they disagree with.
Trump is likely itching for them to hypocritically go after him, and doing so would likely be a disaster for Democrats. I suspect Trump would relish being a thorn in the side of Democrats and the media for another 4 years. And he could be incredibly effective at it.
But that does not mean I think Trump will be the 2024 GOP presidential candidate.
2024 is a long way off. And many will change by then. Biden has already announced he is not running in 2024. That could change. But I suspect it wont.
I do not think Biden will make it to 2024.
Extreme wealth disparities
Can we get off the stupid socialism kick!
Rick – this is pure nonsense.
The FACT is that as we prosper “income inequality” will become greater – it must.
There is a certain portion of people who just can not do any better.
These are people with low IQ’s or serious mental health problems.
The unemployable or the marginally employable.
We have no fix for these.
Above them we have a spectrum going to the very wealthiests.
The farther we stretch the top end the bigger the middle becomes.
Yes, we have more Billionaires, we also have more millionaires, more people earning over 100K and more people earning over 50K. Each of these groups is an order of magnitude larger than the one before it – and always will be.
Regardless, you have no right to take from another what is theirs.
It is called stealling.
Income redistribution is theft. You can not whitewash that away.
And you can not make a nation engaged in moral corruption work as you wish.
Just let go. Income distribution is always going to closely approximate the Paretto Principle.
The reasons for that are intrinsic to human nature.
You have the ability to control how tall the pyramid is, but not how wealth and income are distributed within the pyriamid.
Tribalism.
We addressed Unity before. Unity is not possible without trust, and democrats and the media have made a deal with the devil on the left and can not be trusted.
Restoring that trust will likely take decades.
I would further note that our divisions are extremely geographical. Biden won a tiny fraction of US counties – less than Clinton or Obama. Those counties are extremely blue and extremely populous. Biden lost something like 90% of US counties.
Our divisions are both strongly political as well as strongly geographic.
I would further note that the left has spent decades destroying any hope of unity, destroying the very idea of america.
I support Gay rights – gay marraige. I have lots of gay friends. Sometimes I think straight people are the minority in my world. Yet as gay marraige became legal I have been revolted at the vindictiveness of many of my gay friends. Having won the right to marry, they now seek the utter destruction of all those who opposed them.
Transexualism is much more complex – but if you are an adult and not harming anyone else – do as you wish.
But what we are seeing is things like Womens liberation being accomplished by – Men.
Women’s sports is slowly being dominated by MTF women.
Trans women are lecturing bio women about smelling their own poop.
FTM transexualism has replaced anorexia and bullemia as the dominating affliction of depressed and anxious girls.
Regareless, we have a mess. One we are not even allowed to try to talk about without getting canceled.
The 1619 project – which is now being taught in many of our schools is a deliberate effort to destroy the idea that there is anything good about america.
While we should not forget the mistakes of our past, The FACTS still are that the US is the least racist, most diverse country in the world BAR NONE.
People still fight to come here from all over the world – beleiving the streets are made of gold – and on arriving here – finding that is true, that there is real opportunity for those who work hard to succeed.
I have a long history here on this blog of criticism of the police.
I want less police, less laws, more freedom.
But suddenly this year the world turned on its head. George Floyd – High on Fentanyl died – likely of an overdose. while in police custody. And the left burned the country down.
A record 237 police have been shot on duty this year. More than all the black men killed by police.
Our policing can be better – and we should work towards that. Getting rid of Qualified immunity might be enough all by itself.
But the riots and violence of this year have resulted in death and destruction and rising crime rates in the democratic controlled cities that all voted heavily for Biden.
Things are not set yet, but we are risking a return to the violent crime waves of the 60;s through 80’s.
The news is a self correcting problem.
We live in the internet era. Main Stream Media has destroyed its own credibility.
When you grasp that you have plenty of other choices.
If you want media that cheers on your idiotic perspective without regard for hypocracy or credibility – you can easily get it.
But if you want sources that value trustwortyness – those are out there too.
“Isolationism –> global leadership.”
Rick – this section is embarassingly bad.
Trump did NOT pull back from global leadership.
He ended Obama’s nonsensical multilateralism.
Trump is the example of Actual US global leadership.
Actually look at US foreign policy under Trump.
The US is no longer the trip wire for Europe.
Europeans are increasing responsible for their own defense – this is a good thing, and it disempowers the adventurism of neighbors like Russia.
The left has framed Russia as this giant boogeyman from day one And Trump as Putin’s lapdog. But the FACTS are Russia is in a far worse position today than 4 years ago.
We are approaching real peace in the mideast – that was not accomplished by US Isolationism. That was accomplished by Trump and american leadership
There are still reasons to be concerned about the mideast – and Biden could easily revert them back to the mess they were before.
But inarguably the mideast is better and has a potentially better future than it did 4 years ago.
You can go to markets in Abu Dabi and find oranges grown in Israel OPENLY for sale in the markets.
Further Iran has for the moment been contained.
In asia Obama promised that TPP was going to bring us all together.
Yet, the Trump presidency ends with something that has never occured before.
Most of Asia is allied with the US to contain China. The US conducted joint militrary excercises with India – that has never happened before. India, Vietnam, Philipines, Australia, Japan. Vietnam, And Taiwan are all unified in containing Trump.
This is your idea of a lack of US global leadershop.
Sorry Rick I MUST call BS.
The one area that has surprised me the most about Trump’s presidency has been his foreign policy. Trump has done better than Nixon and Kissenger.
There is no president in 150 years that has done so well in Foreign policy.
I expect that Biden will be a disaster. But that does not matter much. We will get past Biden soon enough.
Pandemic.
While there has been plenty of data from the start, and there have been plenty of actual experts contradicting the experts the left relies on, the fact is that we have entirely Botched dealing with this.
There are now SEVERAL studies demonstrating unequivocally that no nations polices anywhere have had any impact on C19.
We are dealing with a respiratory virus with a transmission rate of between 2.4 and 3.8.
Laboratory tests show masks as 77% effective in stopping C19.
While that sounds good – it is not enough.
Unless you can get the effective transmission rate below 1.0 – and preferably significantly below 1.0 AND KEEP IT THERE, anything you do accomplishes nothing but delay at significant cost elsewhere.
I would further note that we have established the actual fatality rate – as about 2-3 times that of the flu. Far less than initially predicted. But more than the flu the mortality curve is dramatically biased with respect to age.
43% of those who get C19 have no symptoms at all.
Another 50% have mild symptoms – similar to or less severe than the flu.
Only a small portion of those infected are seriously ill or at serious risk.
And that portion is highly predictable. And most of this was known in February.
Instead of focusing on protecting those at high risk – which is a small portion of people.
We played this nonsensnical impossible game of pretending we were all in this together.
I would further note we have NEVER put a dent in a respiratory virus without a vaccine.
Finally, We have 3 vaccines now – with more coming every day.
4 if you count the fact that the MMR vaccine has been found to be 77% effective at preventing C19 and dramatically reduces the severity of C19 for those who still get C19.
Most people can get the MMR vaccine now, usually for free, and it is fully effective in 2 weeks.
Regardless, we have developed atleast 3 vaccines in less than 9 months – something that has never been done before. The shortest a new from scratch vaccine has ever been developed is 4 years.
How did we do this (and every other actually effective measure) – Trump and free markets.
Lockdowns have not worked.
There is no difference in the behavior of C19 between states that took drastic measures and those that did not, that are not explained entirely by demographics and geography – not policy.
Ah, Dave, last seen claiming that covid is just a bad flu, that herd immunity will be what ends the pandemic, that Biden is toast, and that the election was already over unbeknownst to me and would be a trump landslide. All of which was said with supreme confidence that suggested infallible clairvoyant powers.
So…… I think that if I want to understand the science of covid and epidemiology and virology I will get it from the sort of people I got my own scientific education from and not from a right wing clairvoyant of failed powers!
Is anyone else having problems getting to the newmoderate.com website? I get an unsafe website and have to go in through a incognito chrome window. If not, any ideas what might be wrong on my end.
Ron, I’m also getting that warning when I try to go directly to the website. This time I went through the WordPress site. Not sure what’s up, but maybe I’ll message Rick and see if he knows about the warning message.
I just read the Senate Committees on Homeland Security and Finance report that dropped today on Hunter Biden (it’s long). I think that the Democrats refused to participate in this investigation, but it’s very extensively footnoted, so it’s pretty easy to verify the findings. Hard to believe the media is protecting this guy, and really the whole Biden family, by refusing to cover this story.
What price will the media pay for election interference? (Heh, none of course, I was just joking) This is the final page of 87:
“The records acquired by the Committees also show that Hunter Biden and his family
were involved in a vast financial network that connected them to foreign nationals and foreigngovernments across the globe. Hunter Biden and Devon Archer, in particular, formed significantand consistent financial relationships with the corrupt oligarch Mykola Zlochevsky during their time working for Burisma, and their firms made millions of dollars from that association whileJoe Biden was vice president and the public face of the Obama administration’s Ukraine policy.
Rosemont Seneca Thornton, an investment firm co-founded by Hunter Biden, received $3.5
million in a wire transfer from Elena Baturina, who allegedly received illegal construction
contracts from her husband, the then-mayor of Moscow. Moreover, Archer’s apparent receipt of money for a car from Kenges Rakishev of Kazakhstan while Vice President Biden was in Kyiv is especially concerning in light of the timing. And finally, Biden and Archer’s work with Chinese nationals connected to the Communist regime illustrate the deep financial connections that accelerated while Joe Biden was vice president and continued after he left office.
The Chairmen’s investigation has faced many obstacles from the minority and from
executive agencies that have failed to comply with document requests. Accordingly, there
remains much work to be done.”
Click to access HSGAC_Finance_Report_FINAL.pdf
Sheesh. None of my paragraph breaks came through in the comment.
They came through on the email copy!
This really sucks. Word Press is useless and almost impossible to follow a conversation. And using this method does not notify through e-mail for new comments. If the GOP carries the senate I can only hope they do to Hunter what the Democrats did to Flynn. Bankrupt him!
Well I doubt anyone will read this from this useless site, but I will try. Guess Rick did not pay his dues for a private site this year (smiley face) Geeze they dont even have that available!
Anyway this is an excellent recap of what is happening in our county, but much info is applicable nationally, especially about rural counties and mask.
https://www.wakehealth.edu/Coronavirus/Coronavirus-Updates-with-Infectious-Disease-Expert?fbclid=IwAR1SyXijIraFpEiyiqvPS1ioTq8j1mT6v8rrNIgoFkOj8cXJfJtS5KkzYDA
I read it Ron! Rick is not sure, right now. how to get TNM up and running again, because he forgot his password, and WordPress won’t allow him to sign in and claim the site. On the other hand, TNM is accessible on his phone, and mine as well, so the mystery deepens. He doesn’t think it has to do with paying the bills.
Since it’s just us for now, I coame on to post this video from a Princeton professor of Classics, Joshua Katz. I have actually met the guy ( our Jersey house is very near Princeton) and, although I don’t really know him, he seems to be your run of the mill, brainiac academic type. Which I suppose he was, until he refrained from signing an open letter that the Princeton faculty published.
This video is long, so I won’t suggest you watch the whole hour of it, but if you can spare 15 minutes, I think you will find Dr. Katz’s story quite chilling:
Priscilla, interesting. What Word Press has to do with an internet website is beyond me. And anyone who creates a website without a way for one to recover a password with key words, email, text or other secure way should be put out of business. These are both .com sites, so I am confused how one ties to another. Too bad since Dave and Jay left, leaving a few to actually have a civil discussion without a 1000 comments overwhelming ones email. It was actually becoming a nice place to share thoughts without someone arguing in 10 to 1 messages.
Since I am not interested in being “connected” all the time, I only have a cell.phone for traveling, so accessing newmoderate.com isn’t an.option. All other times its turned off and I dont pay for any.internet access. I made that decision years ago when phones came.out, just about every manager at the hospital had one and they got numerious call when off from staff and management. I never bought one, the hospital would not provide one, so if it was an emergency, they could call on a land line. And that rarely happened. And when I was in a meeting with anyone, they had my attention 100%, not 50% with constant cell interuptions. And the same goes for dinner with family here. You eat here, your phone is off!
That is one of our dinner rules, as well! Even I have found myself, at times, looking down at my phone when I’m in a meeting and should be paying attention to whomever is speaking.
At dinner though, it’s just plain rude.
Ron, since it seems to be just the two of us for now, I was wondering what is your opinion of the calls for Trump to pardon Julian Assange and Edward Snowden?
In the past, I would have been firmly against it, since I believed the media reports that both were evil, anti-American and, in Snowden’s case, traitorous. I’m no longer at all sure of any of that anymore, and I think I would now be in favor of both being pardoned, so we could finally find out their side of the story. Rand Paul has called for Assange to be pardoned, and so has Tulsi Gabbard. Gabbard has really grown on me over the past year. I remember when dduck was on here and was talking her up. I didn’t know much about her at the time, but I’ve found her to be an interesting politician, and, like Trump, unafraid to be hated by both sides,
Anyway, hope you’re well, and that you and your family have a nice holiday!
Priscilla, this argument goes back as far as the Federalist and anti-Federalist. One group like Liz Cheney opposes the pardon and supports an overreaching central government, while Rand Paul is a small government Republican that finds what Snowden did no different than those leading the revolution that created America ruled by the bill of rights. I have no problem with a pardon for Snowden because I do not and never will support government monitoring privates citizens without a search warrany. As for Assuange, dont know enough on him to really comment.
Tulsi..She is one of the better Democrats. Much like Manchin. I think she is caught fighting for voice in the party all while being way too moderate for the party. She made points for me when she supported Medicare buy in and not Medicare for all. And now calling out politicians jumping the line on vaccinations for C-19.
You don’t see Biden kowtowing to woke progressives? LMAO he already is!