Debate THIS! Trump and Biden Go for the Jugular
Poor Chris Wallace. The relatively moderate, even-tempered Fox News anchor found himself unexpectedly thrust into a playground fight between two brawling schoolboys last night. What made the playground fight noteworthy is that the two brawlers were both well into their seventies – and running for president of the United States.
It wasn’t a pretty spectacle, as spectacles go. Donnie exploited his position as the reigning playground potentate – bragging, bullying, continually interrupting both Wallace and Biden, and (of course) doing what he does best: glorifying his record. (More accomplishments in his first three years than any president in history? I’d happily grant him the edge over Millard Fillmore, Franklin Pierce, James Buchanan, Andrew Johnson, and a number of other listless chief executives, but let’s leave it at that.)
Feisty, beady-eyed Joey, not to be outdone, proved himself to be a pugnacious playground brawler. In fact, he established a number of firsts in the history of presidential debates: the first challenger to call the sitting president a “liar,” a “clown,” and “the worst president America has ever had.” Exasperated by Donnie’s constant interruptions, he finally let loose with “Will you shut up, man?” Stay classy, Joe.
Chris Wallace tried his best to insert himself between the two ruffians, but to no avail. One online wag suggested that both candidates should be fitted with shock collars, which the moderator could zap when either man spoke out of turn.
Was there anything of substance to report? Despite the schoolyard antics, the debate managed to touch on most of the key issues of 2020: the pandemic, the economy, the legitimacy (or illegitimacy) of mail-in ballots, foreign affairs, urban unrest and “racial reckoning” – along with Trump’s taxes and Biden’s sons.
When challenged to denounce white supremacist groups like the Proud Boys, Trump addressed them directly, and somewhat cryptically, by ordering them to “Stand back and stand by.” (Of course, the alt-right took the latter half of that statement as a nod of approval for their cause; they’re probably revving up their engines in anticipation of a disputed election.)
When Trump challenged Biden to denounce the protesters running wild in Democratic-run cities across the republic, the former vice president was quick to oppose the violence (as he’s done on more than one occasion), but stopped short of criticizing BLM or the “woke” left. When Trump told him, “Your party wants to go socialist,” Biden immediately channeled his inner Louis XIV and replied, “I am the Democratic party right now.” (I wonder what AOC or even Kamala Harris would say to that, but let’s interpret Biden’s remark as a signal that he won’t be taking orders from his party’s radical wing.)
What conclusions can we draw from the televised donnybrook? For one, Biden didn’t wilt under the constant barrage of interruptions from a domineering Trump. Contrary to the ongoing Republican talking point, this old fellow was no candidate for a nursing home. While he didn’t dazzle us with his intellect or manners, he demonstrated that he still has the verve, stamina and moral fiber to take on the world’s toughest job.
And what about Trump? Well, the chieftain hasn’t lost his mojo. More bellicose than ever, he did his best to intimidate both his opponent and the moderator with all guns firing. He actually managed to discuss some substantive issues and didn’t take Biden’s bait. (I half expected that the two septuagenarians would engage in fisticuffs before a worldwide audience.) But once again, Trump showed us that he’s a human steamroller — an autocratic personality who cares little for trivial matters like truth and decency. He’s built a cult around himself, and he’s his number one fan. Like a classic schoolyard bully, he aggrandizes himself by diminishing others.
Finally, what did this first debate say about America in 2020? European observers wrung their hands over the televised spectacle as a symptom of our swift decline. (Chinese pundits were more gleeful.)
I don’t think we Americans need to mourn the death of our democracy just yet (let’s wait until Trump or the Democrats try to scuttle the results of the election), but we need to take note and “stand by.” Our polarization into mutually hostile tribes has made us an angry, intemperate and often irrational nation. We need to look at our neighbors with a little less contempt and a little more sympathy.
Too many of our politicians reflect that polarization. It would have been unthinkable for Obama and McCain – or even Nixon and Kennedy – to bandy insults in the crude manner of Trump and Biden. The ghosts of Washington, Lincoln, the Roosevelts, Eisenhower and Reagan must have been clanking their chains, their moans echoing throughout the vast chambers of eternity.
Sure, it was only a debate – a televised political circus act. But it was hard to take. As CNN’s Jake Tapper described it, last night’s slugfest was “a hot mess inside a dumpster fire inside a train wreck.” I won’t even try to top that one.
Rick Bayan is founder-editor of The New Moderate. His three collections of darkly humorous essays are available in e-book form on Amazon. (Just search under Rick Bayan.)
THE NEW MODERATE 
Actually, the Proud Boys, who are openly misogynistic, Islamophobic, transphobic and anti-immigration, boasts several black members, thus they aren’t quite a white supremacist group.
I didn’t know that the Proud Boys had black members. Thanks for the info.
The head of Proud Boys actually spoke out today, trashing the nonsensical idea that his group is a bunch of white supremacists. He’s a black Cuban, now living in Miami. For what it’s worth, he also leads a group called Latinos for Trump. So lots of brown and black Proud Boys. They’re not my cup of tea, but there aren’t that many of them, and they’re definitely not burning and looting our cities. Keep in mind that Biden claimed that those people, at least the heavily funded Antifa ones, do not even exist! Far from denouncing Antifa, Biden calls their radical organization no more than “an idea.”
Priscilla: The left claims that Antifa isn’t an actual organization. I don’t know enough about them to post an informed opinion, but I suspect that they’re similar to the alt-right: a motley association of like-minded extremists without a top-down organization. Our old friend Rob might have considered himself Antifa without being a card-carrying member.
Antifa has members, a flag, and an ideology (the guy who killed the Trump supporter in Portland last month, and was subsequently killed in a shoot out with police referred to himself as “100% Antifa”) but does not have a formal organizational structure. It also has wealthy underwriters, George Soros among them, and some have suggested Jack Dorsey, CEO of Twitter, as well.
So, to a certain extent, this is an argument that requires a considerable amount of context. Does a nationwide network, made up of anarchist revolutionaries, but lacking incorporation, qualify as an “organization”?
Probably not (for one thing, anarchists, by their very beliefs, are unlikely to join a club,organization, or any group with a hierarchical structure), but that doesn’t mean that Biden was right to call them “an idea.” That statement was not merely idiotic, but dangerous, They are very corporeal, and could be rightfully called the radical left’s storm troopers, allied at the moment with BLM and the extremist wing of the Democrat Party (think AOC, Omar, etc). They have a coherent goal ~ the destruction of the US~ and a common strategy ~ use traditional left-wing politicians, such as Biden, Pelosi, Adam Schiff, the mainstream media, etc. as useful idiots, to cover for the takeover and, ultimately, the destruction of our system, and then move on to eliminate the useful idiots, and move forward with a anarcho-Marxist revolution. Think Sans-culottes, bolsheviks, etc. They would ultimately turn on each other, of course, but that’s cold comfort, given the likelihood that there would be no one else left….
The Proud Boys,such as they are, are an anti-political correctness, pro-masculine (the group originally started as the brainchild of alt-right comedian Gavin McGinnis) anti-leftist bunch of street brawlers, who are few in number, but, themselves, serve as useful idiots for more extreme white wing groups. Many like the Latinos for Trump guy, have moved on into more mainstream activism.
So is Antifa a network, a movement, a bunch of terrorists? Yep. An “organization?” Not really, but that doesn’t make them any less malignant.
“Shadowy” might be a good adjective for Antifa as well.
And, I meant “right wing” not “white wing” groups, lol. A Freudian typo, perhaps?
My comments:
1) Chris Wallace was a egotistical disgrace, inserting himself repeatedly into a debate that was intended to feature “open discussion” between the candidates. Sure, they may have yelled over each other and left everyone wondering how the hell these two ended up as the candidates, but that would’ve given the voters a chance to see the considerable shortcomings of
each one…and possibly even produced some high points. Instead, we were subjected to Nanny Wallace’s opinion on what was to be discussed, what was verboten ( hint: how Hunter Biden came by his vast wealth) and when it was time to “move on.” The format wasn’t bad, the moderating was.
2) I seriously doubt that Trump convinced any Biden supporters to switch their vote to Trump, although Biden probably convinced a bunch of his own supporters to not vote at all.
Priscilla: Even if the debate was supposed to feature open discussion, the moderator had to impose some structure and discipline so that each candidate could be heard. You have to admit that Trump was continually talking over Biden in an attempt to dominate the stage. His strategy backfired; several key Trump advisors thought he was way too aggressive and belligerent.
I did notice that when Trump raised the issue of Hunter Biden’s questionable activities, Chris Wallace’s response was along the lines of “Move along… nothing to see here, folks.” But on the whole I thought he did what he was supposed to do — even if the squabbling candidates made his job next to impossible.
BTW Biden was off throughout the whole debate.
He was not off like he had dementia. He was off like he was drugged.
His cadence was completely different than normal. He was speaking more slowly and mostly without emotion or expression.
I do not know what that means but it was weird.
Biden was interrupting Trump as much as Trump was interrupting Biden.
But Biden’s affect was flat so it was actually hard to tell.
Priscilla, I thought the information about Proud Bays was extremely interesting. I see where Tarrio, the head, is of Cuban descent but they don’t specify he is black, but he certainly has a dark complexiion. I agree with you about BLM and Antifa. They aim for the destruction of the United States. Alan Dershowitz claims that the BLM charter has several anti-semtic elements. I feel that if we are going to condemn the alt-right we must also condemn the BLM and in particular Antifa.
One more gripe about Wallace. Since when is critical race theory and racial sensitivity training remotely the same thing? Perhaps Wallace needs to acknowledge his own white privilege, and be convinced to give up his career, which is clearly based only on the color of his skin, and allow a person of color to take over. After all, Wallace is an old white man, so he is obviously a racist, even if he doesn’t realize it. Reparations are due those who have suffered at the hands of his ilk.
Ha… well, today they’re pretty much the same thing, unfortunately. (At least that’s the impression I get.) It’s not enough to feel empathy for people of color; a certain amount of self-flagellation is required.
Rick, it’s not even the self- flagellation. It’s the anti-American, “we’re the most systemically racist, greedy capitalist society in history” aspect of it that is so dangerous and outright dishonest. Reparations are simply redistribution of wealth based on race, rather than class. In reality, they’re the same Marxist solution to the scourge of liberty and free will. Once you’ve accepted intersectionality and all of its ramifications, you believe that only through government control can a society be cleansed of inequality and achieve utopia. Of course, in reality, “utopia”necessarily results in mass death and oppression of the survivors. Goes without saying that we should not be forcing government employees, or anyone else, to undergo this kind of training. Trump is 100% right on this, and Wallace either doesn’t understand what critical race theory is, or is not bright enough to see how dangerously destructive it has already been to our way of life.
I agreed with Trump’s response to the question about antiracism training. It’s indoctrination, plain and simple — based on a combination of critical race theory, BLM talking points, the Times’ 1619 Project, and probably Zinn’s “People’s History.” Even worse, schools are now adopting this approach to teaching American history.
I use to like Wallace. But in the last couple years he is not the same as he was. he needs to retre.
Well I wrote a comment about twice as long as Priscilla’s first comment , it did not post, then when I tried posting it, it said duplicate and closed me out of word press.
So I will just say Chris Wallace and anyone involved with the debate should have seen this train wreck coming. Look at what Trump did with some debates in 2016 walking into others spaces, etc. during debates.
What I saw was two “Grumpy Old Men staring in Fight Club”
Neither one should be president. But this is what we get when moderates are not actively engaged in primaries, so the fringe candidates win. Democrats and G.O.P have many others much more qualified more in line with Bill Clinton or Bush 41 than what we have today.
I get it, Ron, and of course I agree that the two parties should pick candidates closer to the center. (It makes sense; a centrist candidate has a better chance to capture the swing states.) You’d think a world-class nation of 350 million could field a better pair of candidates. Most of the prominent Democrats in the primaries (Sanders, Warren, O’Rourke, Yang, Harris, Booker) were to the left of Biden, so at least they picked an old-fashioned liberal as opposed to a “woke” progressive. Kamala Harris is a little too woke for me, so let’s hope Biden survives his term if he wins.
I don’t know how anyone other than King Kong could have intimidated Trump and Biden enough to control that debate. Trump, especially, kept talking over Wallace as well as Biden. Wallace did what he could to control the interruptions, but it was like trying to control a tornado.
Sorry about the posting glitch, by the way.
Harris is a disaster.
She has been “woke” for this campaign.
But her past history is quite different.
She was an abysmal prosecutor in CA.
Tulsi Gabard did a fantastic job of eviscerating her and knocking her out of the presidential Race. Biden should not have brought her back.
I do not care so much that she is “woke” – that is an act.
As that she is the next Hillary Clinton.
She is a bad person.
Biden is corrupt. He is not evil.
Rick is there anyway you can increase posts, either your or guests comments. Your site can actually be “the moderate site”, but quarterly comments will not work with wordpress. I chokes after a few comments.
Really liked this post. Right on,
Julie
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Thanks, Julie! I appreciate the appreciation.
Rick, my apologies. Before launching into all of the ways I vehemently disagree with some of your observations, I should have shown some appreciation as well! Not to mention commently on the our areas of agreement.
BTW Biden was off throughout the whole debate.
He was not off like he had dementia. He was off like he was drugged.
His cadence was completely different than normal. He was speaking more slowly and mostly without emotion or expression.
I do not know what that means but it was weird.
It might have been the contrast with Trump’s overbearing style that made Biden seem subdued. I didn’t get a “weird” vibe from him.
Biden spoke for long periods. This had nothing to do with Trump.
He spoke slower than normal, and he spoke with less affect than normal.
Play clips of past Biden remarks – even recent ones side by side with his debate performance – they are not the same.
Biden has a very distinct way of speaking. He has had it for 50 years.
His “style” was different last night.
I did not watch, but from what I have heard, Trump really did not allow that to show up much.
Rick, I don’t think Biden had much of a choice in how to deal with Trump. If he hadn’t told him to shut up, etc. he would have looked like someone cowering under a bully. I thought Trump was an embarassment, but it is exactly what I expected. He acted just as bad in the 2016 election.
Nicve
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Wonder what this does to N.C. race.
https://www.wxii12.com/article/north-carolina-senate-cunningham-suggestive-texts/34256718?fbclid=IwAR2QqmQ9VvyKP6fW2OXYOOwghlPm2Ch6AD2u3YVXMvQJbaJ9U6xbvPg3y3c#
I am constantly amazed by the idiocy of these politicians. It’s one thing to have an illicit affair ~ he could probably survive that being made public. But a married man of almost 50, sexting like this with a married woman makes him look like such a fool, on top of being a philanderer! What an idiot to put this stuff out there to be discovered…has he not heard of what happened to Jeff Bezos, among others? Nothing you put in email or text is really private.
I’m guessing this helps Tillis jhold a seat that was looking like a flip.
Apropos of our conversation about the Proud Boys, I found this clip of Anthony Cumia on Joe Rogan’s podcast, talking about how the Proud Boys literally started as a joke between him and Gavin McGinnis, then morphed into an actual group, although never remotely a white supremacist one. Anthony Cumia was part of a duo that had a long time hit radio show “Opie and Anthony,” which was very crude and offensively politically incorrect, much like the Howard Stern show. He and McGinnis were friendly, and this story is really amazing in that it illustrates how a completely moronic joke ended up spawning a false narrative that became part of the recent presidential debate. It’s a funny clip, and worth watching if just to see how insane our news media and politics have become:
Yes, that so-called “debate” was an embarrassing mess. The real winners were the Great Re-Set Globalists who put at least two “impressions” on display:
1. Self-governance doesn’t work because look at what u get (planting yet another seed for one-world central planning by the premium select elite!)
2. Old Joe is the more “reasonable” of the two for now, so choose him (which works well for the anti-sovereignty globaliats since Joe/Obama/the Clintons/the Bushes and so many other career politicians have already sold out. )
Do your own extended research on western globalists and draw ur own conclusions!
Anyway, Chris Wallace missed a phenomenal opportunity to cement himself a heroic place in human history: Since approx. 90% of people watching on Earth were either cringing (Americans) or laughing derisively (America’s enemies), Wallace should have gotten up on stage and sternly chastised the candidates like a bad-ass, threatening to walk off if they didn’t both follow the rules for the sake of those watching and listening, and then at the next violation turn to the millions of viewers and say, “This is a freakin mess; I’m out!” That would have bene better than coming across as a weanie. Just sayin!
By the way, I am absolutely voting for Trump again. Joe Bye-Don is the weakest facade of a puppet I have ever seen in politics.
Pat, I posted a comment under Rick’s last post, in which I expressed disbelief that any reasonably observant person could vote for Biden. Of course, I know many smart, observant people who are planning to do just that. I attribute it to the 4 year barrage of anti- Trump BS : first the Russia hoax, the Stormy Daniels payment, the 2 sccops of ice cream “scandal,” phony impeachment, and now, of course, the lie that, had Dems been in charge, no one, or almost no one, would have died from covid. This last thing I can at least explain as a typical campaign strategy; that is, to blame the guy in charge for anything bad that happens on his watch. But, the reason it has worked so well is that the ground has been softened by relentless media focus on Trump’s supposed failures, despite his having one of the most successful first-term agendas, maybe the most successful, that I can recall. Kind of like they tanked George Bush with Katrina, after they had trashed his presidency with the BushHitler stuff for years. Of course, Bush was already in his second term by the time they were successful, but it did help a political novice to defeat McCain, who had voted for Bush’s War. I eventually turned away from Bush myself, mostly because he refused to push back on anything ~ his silence seemed like assent.
I don’t know if Biden supporters really believe that he is capable of holding the office. I suspect that many do not, but simply want the orange interloper out, believing that that will make the chaos end. They are missing the point that, although Trump understands and even thrives on drama and chaos, he has not caused any of it, and that it will continue and worsen under Biden, because 1) the radical left considers him a useful idiot, and his VP an even more useful idiot, who will assist them in achielving their goals. 2) their revolution has started and it won’t end until it’s put down by force. The appeasement and tacit approval of the Democrats has emboldened violent radicals. They don’t give a shit about Biden or Harris ~ they’re gonna do what they’re gonna do. I can see Harris attempting to put them down by force, after mischaraterizing them as right-wingers, but that’s another topic.
Good ol’ Word Press. At it again. Second attempt at posting this. Sorry if it shows up twice.
Pat/Priscilla Back when this virus began, I made the comment a couple times that I thought Trump would lose and the senate would flip. I said that because Trump alienated a large number of voters because of his persona and that did not change over the past 8 months. Just a couple days ago Gallup did a poll and 56% of the respondents said they were better off today than 4 years ago. That was higher than anytime over the past 20 years when that polling was done. Another poll gave the president a 50% performance approval, but 9% of those said they would not vote for Trump because of his personal behaviors.
This is showing in all the swing state polls. Michigan, Biden up by almost 10%, N.C. Biden up by 3-4%, Biden up in PA, toss up Ohio, FL. Electoral map looks like over 300 for Biden.
In the senate, that also looks to become democrat controlled. Even in N.C. where the democrat has been found to be sexting with another woman in CA and will not confirm it was only one this happened with, he is still up by 5-7% over Tillis. Senate appears to be 53-47 if looking at polls.
I look at two things happening. One a slow introduction of far left legislation so the “crabs” in the crab pot don’t recognize the more socialistic policies becoming part of controlling American lives, or two, a fast first 90 day movement to reintroduce all the regulations that Trump repealed, fast approval of more entitlement legislation, fast approval of tax changes, more regulation on energy and many other far left agenda items.
The smart thing the dems could do is #1. If they do it under #2, people will realize the impact on their lives and reject that agenda in 2022 and move back to a more moderate position, I don’t see that happening in this country for a number of years given the indoctrination of our young within the education systems today.
As for packing the court, I am of the opinion that this is an issue being used by the GOP to garner support and will not really become an issue with the dems. With two of the conservative judges over 70, they might just wait for an opening and not go full radical. Shumer might not be able to keep swing state democrat senators in line, even with threats of committee removal assignments and reduction of pork money to their states.
Sadly, Ron, I tend to agree with most of what you’ve said here. The dumbing down of America, which started in the 70’s , with “values education,” has come home to roost, with a electorate that largely misunderstands or has no knowledge of our founding or our history. Young people today throw around the term “systemically racist” to justify any and all bad behavior and violation of law. They think that “court-packing” means nominating and confirming any legitimate vacancy that comes up during a president’s term. Essentially, they are sheeple, who will go along with anything that the Democrats say, because they have no understanding of the principles of democracy, they only understand power politics. In other words, anything that’s good for their side is “right,” and if they oppose it, it’s “wrong.”
I can only pray that, if the Dems take over, they will act according to the Constitution, but I don’t believe they will. Look at how most Democrat governors and mayors have behaved as mini-dictators during the lockdown. The Michigan Supreme Court ruled that Gretchen Witmer had violated Michigan’s constitution and unlawlfully imposed authoritarian rule, and what did she do? She basically told the court to pound sand, and that she would do as she pleased. This is how the Democrats will shred the US Constitution.
As much as I admire what Trump has done, how he has stood up to China, brokered peace between Israel and the Arab nations, brought back our manufacturing base and made America the premier energy producing nation in the world….I also agree with you that he has too often been his own worst enemy, refusing to STFU when Biden was self-destructing, and allowing Biden to make Trump the main issue in the election.
I don’t think that the election will be a landslide for Biden, as the polls predict. I’m not saying that Trump will win. I think that the election will be contested, and that will throw the country into more chaos. But there’s still another 20+ days, and, given the events of 2020 so far, I’m hopeful that things take a better turn. Hopeful, but not necessarily optimistic.
I doubt it will happen here, but the same game plan was used in Venezuela to get control of that country.
The first step is education
Next is the media
Then end arounds around the constitution
Finally constitutional amendments/ total replacement
Michigan’s governor went around the states constitution that the state S.C. said she violated by ordering local health departments, who have local legal controls, to follow her edicts.
Since you are moving our way shortly, will tell you that we are still limited in many ways here. Bars can only open outside for limited patrons, restaurants limited, theaters limited, stadiums limited, etc. BUT….High Point, the city I worked at in the Health System that has a very powerful “elite”, has a furniture market twice a year. It is now open for their fall market and is usually attended by 75,000-80,00, but this year, they expect 35,000-40,000.
So if your a small eatery or bar owner, you dont have the political clout. But if your in furniture, well money talks to our governor. How he can justify limiting fans to less than 10,000 in stadiums holding 50,000, but allowing 35,000-40,000 inside buildings is hard to understand.
There sure is no “science” in that decision
I can’t vote for Trump. Even though Joe Biden is a very decent man, I can’t bring myself to vote for him because I believe that the democratic party is promoting policies that are highly destructive to America. This video almost precisely expresses my disgust with the Democratic Party. It is 47 minutes long but it is well worth the time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flp7gKg5G4E&fbclid=IwAR2GLEy8UhwJuaP4KMe_MCVzphi4LCNGS24UlI3SU7DvAvOKDJn7P_0_auo
Excellent video, Savannah.
Biden was caught selling his office to the Chinese Communist Party, so his 50 yr. old son could buy crack and sex trafficked hookers, so, of course, yesterday the media asked him what flavor milkshake he bought for his granddaughter (That is literally true, by the way ~ as a massive scandal swirled around him, the media followed Joe and his granddaughter to a shake shop and played nice).
Joe Biden has cultivated his persona as a “hail fellow, well met” kind of guy, while he and his family have enriched themselves and become multi-millionaires, by selling access to him while he was VPOTUS. Imagine how much wealthier they will become when he is POTUS!
Does anyone here know what Biden will do as POTUS, other than raise taxes and make sure that the government takes over the healthcare system? No, because all he has campaigned on is that Trump caused everyone to die of covid, and that there has been no violence in our cities ~ that is a “myth,” according to him, and Antifa is merely an ‘idea”. Oh, and that he, Joe Biden, represents the “soul” of America. God help us if that is true.
Throughout American history, we have maintained the idea that anyone can grow up to be president. Donald Trump was an outsider, who believed that he could do better than the swanp-connected politicians in DC, so he became their target. Whether or not one likes his personality, he has steadfastly pushed to enact the populist agenda that he promised. That has been his crime. He refused to become part of the elite, his populism was not fake.
Just about every elite institution in America has conspired to defeat him: the intelligence community, academia, the media, and the entrenched Washington DC political establishment of both parties.
The prevailing narrative is that Trump is incompetent, rude and heartless. I’ll agree that he can be rude, particularly to people who are trying to destroy him. But, as I have said in the past, I don’t think it matters ~ if he were “nice” they would do the same thing.
So, we’ll wait and see how the American constitutional republic fares under President Harris. I’m guessing that, within 4 years, we will no longer have it, proving that Ben Franklin was right when he implied that a republican form of government is hard to keep.
Priscilla, I could agree with you about Trump except for issues like putting goons into the CDC to censor communications out of an agency, that has been and should be apolitical. He has assigned strongmen/women to CDC individuals, one as chief of staff to Redfield, for no other reason to approve what he releases concerning C-19. It is intimidation and nothing else.
This is no different than Mafia Dons assigning “body guards” for New York mayors, not to really protect them, but to control access of individuals with opposing views of the crime bosses to the mayor so that their agenda is not side tracked. I suspect since Trump grew up and managed businesses while mafia dons were still powerful, he learned the trade.
As for Biden, I still believe Biden wont complete much more than one year in office. Today, getting out of a SUV there were two SS men helping him get his balance getting out of the vehicle, he shuffles his feet and then walks into the building taking steps about 1/2 the length I take and my stride is no where close to where it was 5 yrs ago.He reminds me of a 85 year old grandfather.
Harris is the one that scares me, not Biden. If Biden is in office and the tax rates go back to 39%, those over $500k will find loopholes. And if he can get Amazon paying taxes on billions, I dont have problems with that either. Amazon should have been paying taxes years ago, but liberals talk a good talk about paying your fair share, but take advantage of anything available, thus they have paid little. As for healthcare, if he continues to support Medicare buy-in, that would be good if their is choice, competition and no mandate. I have seen too many people get screwed by insurance companies over my career to not believe competition from Medicare would not help. Medicare Advantage shows what competition can do.
However, if Harris has any influence, then the progressives will use force to achieve their agenda, not choice. And force leads to many things worse than government making people buy private companies products. The ACA force was just the first steps. That happily has been derailed so far.
Ron, I hadn’t heard of this, so I googled it, and the goons were apparently Health and Human Services appointees who tried to review/change CDC information that they believed was intentionally misleading and political.
One was Dr. Paul Alexander, an Oxford educated epidemiologist and professor at McMaster Univ. in Canada, who said “CDC to me appears to be writing hit pieces on the administration.Very misleading by CDC and shame on them. Their aim is clear.”
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/us-politics/article-mcmaster-university-professor-embroiled-in-white-house-controversy-for/
I know that the CDC is a bureacracy and that HHS is an administrative agency, so they likely both spun this to their advantage. CDC includes many scientists hostile to Trump (Fauci and Redfield among them), and HHS includes scientists who were appointed by Trump.
So, as always, there are 2 sides to this. And when politics is involved, both sides are probably unreliable.
Yes, two sides to every coin. But Trump seems to have his coin with just tails (and you can define your own “tail”).
So hire some “scientist” to explain why the CDC science is screwed up. Why make it look like you are putting strongmen into the agency to shut them up. It just plays into the anti-Trump natrative.; This is the one place one can tell trump has always been in charge and no one ever questioned the emperors cloths. He does not know how to handle opposition effectively.
Interesting that the FBI held a presser today and confirmed that the claim that the Proud Boys were going to interfere in the election was false and actually came from Iran. It was sent to Democrat Leaders and news outlets, who, in turn, claimed that the Proud Boys were going to intimidate Democrats who came to vote. Interesting that the Democrats would think that 1) a small rag-tag group like the Proud Boys could do that and 2) that the media outlets claiming this nonsense have barely mentioned Antifa to this day, despite the fact that Antifa groups have already announced that they would try and intimidate Trump voters at polling places. My question is: how does Antifa know who someone is going to vote for? Or do they just hang outside of precincts that they know tend to be heavily GOP? Or maybe they won’t be there at all, but want to suppress turnout?
Here again Trump sticks his head up his rear when ask about the Proud Boys and gives that off the wall answer something like “wait and see”.
His needing to know everything, speak about everything and brag about everything is what has screwed him in this election.
Why not say I am not that familiar with that group, so will investigate and if we find something, we will report that to you.
He is in the train tunnel with the bright light ready to crash into him and that bright light is himself!
Hahaha! Even though we disagree about Trump, Ron, I always get a laugh at the ways you bash him. He does often crash into himself!
I hope he doesn’t tonight. With the Hunter Biden bribery scandal set to break into the mainstream, Trump should just shut the hell up (if possible) and let Biden drown in his own corruption. Problem is, the moderator will be hitting the “mute” button every time Trump changes the subject, while letting Joe ramble on about how he is the “soul” of America.
Trump is a very flawed man, but he has been the man we needed to push back on Obama’s “fundamental tranformation” of America into a country of identity politics, deep state corruption and socialist big government. I firmly believe that, if he hadn’t come along, we would already have lost our 1st and 2nd amendment rights, to name just a couple.
If Biden wins, I believe he will be a figurehead, while Kamala Harris and the left wing of the Democrat Party begin to dismantle the Constitution. If Trump wins, the left will go absolutely crazy~ well, crazier than they already are, if that’s possible~ and he will have to put down riots across the country.
Either way, the next year will not be pleasant. We may look back at the covid shutdown as “the good old days.”
I bash him from frustration.
1) I did not support him in the primaries in 2016
2) Did not vote for him (Johnson) in 2016
3) Came to support him based on his policies.
4) Pissed off and frustrated with him because he has screwed up his reelection due to his persona. And much of his policies will be reversed within a year of Harris taking office.
Not watching news or debates, will be watching local college football tonight.
But not living in a vacuum either. This is also destroying my dream that Biden would win, retire to the White House, come out like the ground hog once a year to deliver SOTU and harmony would prevail👻
Well this just blew that away. Biden wins, another 4 years of some more divisive investigations.
https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/oct/22/hunter-bidens-ex-biz-partner-links-joe-biden-china/
“This is the choice we face as a country going forward. Do we want the party that has a very casual relationship with violent mobs to be in charge of everything or would we prefer some adults in the room? The Democrats have been so supportive of the violence since May that there is no reason to believe it will end even if they win everything next week. Rioting has become their modus operandi now.”
https://pjmedia.com/columns/stephen-kruiser/2020/10/28/the-morning-briefing-philly-riot-thugs-make-final-push-for-trumps-reelection-n1099004
My point in posting this is that a Biden win will make things exponentialy worse. The Democrats have formed an alliance with the global anti-American far left, and they apparently believe that they will be able to control the violence that is coming. The problem is that their candidates ~ both Biden and Harris ~ are completely compromised, and will not protect America, its institutions, its economy, or its people. That is not why they want to be president.
I have been saying now, for years, that Trump is a genuine American leader. Flawed, yes, very flawed, but, by far the best, we’ve got right now. If he does not win, we can kiss our liberty goodbye.
I may sound like some kind of crazy person to everyone here, but that is what I believe, and I am not crazy.
Priscilla “I have been saying now, for years, that Trump is a genuine American leader. Flawed, yes, very flawed, but, by far the best, we’ve got right now. If he does not win, we can kiss our liberty goodbye.”
Trump might be a leader, but he does not act like one. He acts like a bully that has turned off many that may have voted for him even with the pandemic.A true leader leads by mostly action, not continual words. A leader can not be worried about what others say, only about what the outcomes of his actions. Trump worries about the opposite.
I am not as fearful of Biden, and eventually Harris, as you. I fear Shumer. The power to make permanent change still lies with congress, Trump proved that by reversing so many edicts issued by Obama. Biden/Harris can issue edicts and if the next president is a Republican.any can be reversed by edict.
If McConnell retains power, that mitigates the Democrats agenda.
If Shumer gets 50-50 split, I believe the first thing he will do is change all 60 vote rules that are left which puts the minority party in the senate in the same position as those in the minority in the house. Impotent voices in the background bitching about actions of the powerful.
When that happens, Shumer/Pelosi will fast track their agenda through their legislatures, using fear and force against any member that would question their plan. i.e. Joe Manchin would be removed from leadership position on Energy Committee if he votes against any green new deal.
I have decided I cant worry about what happens. People vote, people get what they vote for. Demographics are changing, Baby boomers are dying off, younger liberal voters are now taking the reigns ( except for picking senile old men to run the country). Force will become more prevalent as that is what the younger voters want. “One has rights as long as they agree with my support for that right”.
Yes, Ron, I do agree that force will become more prevalent. As will single party rule (with a “minority party” that exists so that us old folks, and young idealists, think that they are being represented), unequal justice, racism disguised as justice for those who have suffered racism in the past, discrimination against and even persecution of Jews and Christians, government control of the media (pretty much there already), healthcare, and education at all levels (again, pretty much a fait accompli already ~ all that is needed is the outlawing of private, charter and homeschooling).
As far as Trump not acting like a leader, I disagree. He is not an elitist, he doesn’t talk like one. He has been relentlessly bullied by pretty much the entirety of the political establishment and the deep state, because he refuses to do business as usual and become rich (or in his case richer) by taking millions from China. I am disgusted by Joe Biden, who has become fabulously wealthy by placing his family in postions of influence and taking his cut, while selling out his own country. He’s not the only one by far, but he’s portrayed as a good guy, when he is, even by politician standards , a liar, a traitor, and just a plain idiot.
I hope that I can get to where you are, and stop worrying about a future that I cannot control. I know that it is not easy for you, or for any of us, to look at what is happening in this country and not be worried, but I try and tell myself that maybe I’m overreacting, and that if we all keep our heads down, and don’t cause trouble, we’ll be able to live our lives in peace, if not freedom. I do worry about the prosperity part, but, again, as you say, it’s no longer in our power. Even our votes no longer count, as far as I can tell.
Well the way I have come to not worrying much about politics is based on three things.
1) I am only one vote. If others vote differently and they win, I can only control what I can control.
2) How is any government action going to impact me. If there is an impact, make my decisions to remove as much as possible from that impact and protect that. Take whatever action that protects you and your assets without harm to others. Is labor law, education, environmental issues going to impact me personally and if not, piss on it. Those that voted for that crap will just need to live with it. Those younger people that voted against it will have to work harder to make it disappear.
3) When good policy is negated by bad personal persona and people tell that person that it is going to cost him the election and he keeps doing it, then all I can say is “don’t get pissed off, you did it yourself. That handful of voters that handed you the election were turned off by your obnoxious actions”
And yes, I look for far more division, but it will be blamed on the right for continuing it, the extremist created by the previous administration regardless of who actually does it.
And, no sooner did I read your last sentence, than I logged on to my Twitter account, and there is a banner headline at the top, which reads:
“With the increase in voting by mail, there might be a delay in the announcement of election results. This means you could encounter unconfirmed claims that a candidate has won their race.”
So if Trump wins, which is entirely possible, no network will report that he has won. After a few days or a week, when the Democrats have manufactured enough phony mail ballots to throw PA (or some other swing state) to Biden, it will be announced.
And any violence that occurs in the meantime, will be the fault of “right wing extremists,” regardless of who actually does it.
Anyway, I’m sorry for sounding like I’m losing it. Maybe I am! Time for a Twitter/TV/news break, I suppose…
This is set up to be worse than 2000. Hopefully it does not happen
I can see your thoughts. but I do not think the election is going to be delayed if the states are like N.C. Biden will carry North Carolina because they reported that there is a huge increase in the number of younger voters doing mail in and I would suspect most of those are Biden voters. I think that trend probably is seen across the states.
And if the young voters want Biden and socialist government, so be it. They will have to live with it.
https://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/article246723076.html
N.C. is going to be recording these votes at the same time the actual on-site voting is taking place., not days later.
Hopefully it is known by November 4th morning so Amy Barrett does not have to rule on any election results. If that happens all hell is going to break out once Shumer gets control.
Well, I guess we’ll see. I go back and forth between despair, anger, and resolve. Resolve is obviously the best. I try to keep in mind that, on November 4th, I will wake up and go on with my life.
I still hold out hope, based on outlier polls, and other subjective evidence, that Trump will win, and Repubs will hold the Senate. Entusiasm among Trump voters is high, and turnout seems to be through the roof, which is generally a positive sign for the GOP. Also, I read that everytime the Dodgers win the World Series, Republicans win, lol. (I know that barely anyone even watched the WS this year, but the Dodgers did win it!) But, if not, if Biden and the socialists win, my life will go on. What other choice do we have?
As far as Biden being a decent guy, “so much better than Trump”,as many liberals say, I call BS on that. As Harry Truman once said, ” Show me a man who gets rich being a politician, and I’ll show you a crook.” Trump may sometimes say jerky things, but Joe Biden is a crook. That’s an easy choice for me.
Anyway, the 2020 election is almost here, and we’ll see how things turn out. I really appreciate that you’re still around, Ron. You have a perspective that cuts through a lot of the hot air and hysteria, and I always learn from you. Plus, if you weren’t here, I’d be talking to myself!
Good grief no. I cannot take the premise seriously. What If I am the love child of Joseph Stalin and my mother, who somehow met him in the early fifties in spite of the fact he was dead by that time, what will I do then?
I refer you to the statements of Chris Christie and similar sane GOP figures: this final trumpian circus of lies and conspiracy theories and lunatic lawyers is a national embarrassment. As Christie said, these so-called lawyers never present their evidence in court, where it would matter. They have had three weeks now, they have presented nothing remotely resembling the giant bombshell that the trump faithful are believing exists. They present their “evidence” in public forums instead, mostly by waving pieces of paper around. As has been asked, if they seriously had some kind of evidence, would they really trust it to lawyers such as the disgraced wack job Giuliani and the totally batshit crazy Sydney whatsername?
If that is not enough to move you back to reality (and, sadly, I am pretty sure it isn’t) consider the statements of Sasse, Peggy Noonan, the editorial board of the National Review, or all the many loyal GOP election officials, secretaries of State, Trump appointed Judges, GOP Governors in swing states etc. (and these conservative figures all have proven that not every conservative or republican is bat shit crazy) who have done their job and dismissed this tripe. And taken the expected abuse and threats from the trump faithful.
Nearly every single breathless claim about dead people voting etc. has been chased down to human error. Then, there is the unprovable and unspecific heresay of some conservative activists who are certain they saw the election being stolen. In truth, I assume there was some cheating and that there always is, on a pathetic scale, done by a few pathetic people. I also will charitably posit that this small amount of fraud was done more or less equally by left and right. That is not what I actually think but I will be very charitable. The trumpian conspiracy theories are based on the wrong idea that if there was fraud it only benefited trump.
Okay, there WAS rampant fraud. It benefited the GOP and it allowed them to hold their Senate seats and make gains in the House. That must be it. Really, the dems won Ohio, Iowa, and Florida, even Texas. But in spite of all that cheating it was not enough and Biden still won, so I will let bygones be bygones.
OK, I am not serious. But you and 70% of GOP voters Are serious and you will not like the reason I ascribe it to. You are members of the trump cult. In this cult trump was mythical, invincible. If he has now been vinced it must be a hoax. Most of the 70% of GOP voters who believe this will go to their graves believing it. You are sincere in believing this nonsense and will go to your grave believing it. It is not going to help these people, its going to harm quite a few of them to carry this trumpian cultish BS around in their heads, but that is what is going to happen.
In my Universe, and in the Universe of a list of the few publically sane GOP and conservative figures I can give you, trump is a mentally defective destructive disgrace who is now underlining all his worst faults in his last days. None of this critical point of view will penetrate the cult shield. Tucker Carlson Himself got the usual treatment for gently questioning the lunatic Sydney whatsername, the same treatment that people like former Senators Flake and Corker, or the honest GOP secretary of State in Georgia got, abuse, death threats, etc.
This would all be amusing perhaps if it were a movie but it is a real life drama in which the POTUS seriously thought he could get state legislatures to override the voters and choose trump electors. I hear only a few conservative voices objecting publically. Dershowitz has even Encouraged trump, he says that scheme could work. Forgive me if I disbelieve that many conservatives truly understand of honor the Constitution. If the unfaithful electors scheme would actually be used and work I would be among those who would participate with vigor in the ensuing civil war. Fortunately the GOP figures he hoped would join this scheme had the integrity to say no adn to say it leads to a dark place. I am sure they are hearing plenty from the lunatic base of trumpGOP for having been honest and upheld the entire theory of our Democracy.
Yes, there are going to be a large group of conservatives trump voters who now feel mortally aggrieved because they believe widescale fraud occurred and hurt trump, though not all 74 million of them, no. Just remember, there is another very large group of people who also are mortally angry at the entirely public and not even slightly embarrassed campaign of trumpGOP to Steal the Election, myself among them. We also will not forget this.
So, trump’s last act is to redouble his efforts to set the nation on fire. And trumpGOP members still adore him and support him and will still forgive him anything. The American future is not looking rosy.
Although it will have no impact on anything but my own desire to vent I present the view of Noah GoldBerg. There are more such opinions I could proved from conservatives like Peggy Noonon, and Romney (as if any trump believer will listen to a word of Romney ever again) but this will do since Goldberg has an enjoyable style:
“Despite the Left’s attempts to undermine this Election, I will NEVER stop fighting for YOU,” President Donald Trump assured me in a fundraising email.
I don’t take campaign fundraising emails seriously (never mind literally). They’re all pretty stupid. But this one was obviously different, for the simple reason that the election is over.
Indeed, this note — one of many sent by the Trump campaign recently — was a plea for money to pay for the legal effort to reverse an election Trump lost by the same margin of electoral votes he once claimed amounted to a “massive landslide.” If you read the letter’s fine print, you’ll discover that “fighting for you” actually means “fighting for me.” Most of the money from small donors will go not to the legal effort but rather to pay down campaign debt.
In a sense,
(I Really like this part—>) I’m grateful that Trump is doubling down on everything wrong about his presidency in its final chapter. Yes, this is embarrassing for the country. Yes, Trump’s radioactive conspiracy theory of a stolen election will have a long, poisonous half-life. But Trump is removing any doubt that his narcissistic presidency was always entirely about him.
The country is in the midst of a health and economic crisis, but Trump’s primary focus is licking his own wounds, not tackling the country’s.
He has largely abandoned formal intelligence briefings and hasn’t met with the coronavirus task force in months. With the exception of a Veterans Day visit to Arlington National Cemetery and a Friday-night statement on the pandemic, he’s conducted his post-election presidency doing precisely what he’s always done — subordinating the office to his own wants and petty grievances.
Trump punctuates his brooding and sulking with pathetic tweets brimming with conspiratorial or otherwise deranged hogwash, including the repeated claim “I won the election.” He continues to insist, as he has throughout his presidency, that proof for his lies is just around the corner. On Sunday, he promised a new lawsuit showing the “unconstitutionality” of the 2020 election.
“Nixon’s real tragedy is that he never had the stature to be a tragic hero,” Gary Wills wrote in “Nixon Agonistes.” “He is the stuff of sad (almost heartbreaking) comedy.”
I think that’s a little unfair to Nixon, but it’s dead on with Trump.
It would take a heart of stone not to laugh as Trump finally turns on the real Judas in his eyes: Fox News (where I’m a contributor). The network, Trump tweeted, “forgot what made them successful, what got them there. They forgot the Golden Goose. The biggest difference between the 2016 Election, and 2020, was @FoxNews!”
Never mind that Fox was No. 1 in every time slot more than a decade before Trump descended that escalator in 2015. Never mind that for four years, Trump began his day with his Presidential Daily Brief — “Fox and Friends” — and ended it with the prime-time gang. And never mind that Trump and the opinion side of the network remain in a deeply codependent relationship.
Trump didn’t get the unwavering, full-throated praise he needed, so now he’s thinking about creating a competing network, one without all the obvious anti-Trump bias!
Most presidents, if they’re remembered at all, get summarized with a single sentence. Whatever that sentence might have been before the election, Trump managed to rewrite it after the election: “He was a one-term president who was the first in American history to refuse to concede or recognize the election results.”
George H.W. Bush, the last incumbent president to lose a reelection bid, left office (after graciously conceding) in fairly bad odor on the right. After eight years of Bill Clinton, however, nostalgia for Bush was so strong, his son parlayed his patronymic name into a winning presidential bid.
If Trump had followed a similar course, he (or perhaps his sybaritic scion, Donald Jr.) might have cashed in on similar nostalgia after four years of a Biden presidency almost certain to be seen as disastrous by those on the right. Instead, he has proven that those of us who said “character is destiny” were right all along.
Let Trump continue to insist he didn’t really lose. It’s impossible to stop him, after all. Let those who believe him — or pretend to — continue to march and tweet and rant, including the many highly compensated media personalities who’ve gotten rich off the Trump train.”
Roby, you may think he is doing this to pay down debt. I fully expect him to run in 2024. Wheb best to raise money. I say when you have a huge core of the 74 million voters willing to fight now.
Master manipulator. Say you are fighting now. Say money is for legal fees for court. Actually money goes to campaign for 2024!
Forgot this
https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/12/politics/donald-trump-2024-republican-nomination/index.html
I am not much worried about that. Ron. I think in 4 years he will be a mostly spent force and I think if he did run he would be vinced again, this time more clearly. I think its not going to be too much longer until his antics are seen by a large number of conservatives as destructive to the conservative cause and the GOP. I expect him to become radioactive when passion cool. He will still command a populist mob though.
About being a master manipulator, I don’t think he is. In general I think he believes nearly every word he says to be true, including when he said that he would think about running for a 3rd term after he got reelected. Maybe its mostly an act, a manipulation, but it is my opinion that he truly is not acting, he is truly crazy, delusional. The shame is that this has actually been accepted and even admired by so many. That will forever remain outside my understanding, even if I understand the reaction against many democratic party ideas and politicians.
I have been looking forward to the day when he will be in our rear view mirror. It can’t come too soon. I do not doubt he can hurt the country and our interests very badly in the next month and a half in trying to get revenge on Biden. Hopefully, he achieves nothing truly catastrophic and maybe even manages to do something good, like bringing more troops home.
I will add that I am truly deeply grateful to the line of GOP officials and judges who upheld the Constitution with honor in dealing with the trump/stone/giuliani/dobbs ironically named Stop the Steal con game. I am glad I can at least respect some small part of the GOP/conservative world, the people in the most responsible positions bravely held their ground and spoke clearly about the nature of this wretched idiocy.
Since I am venting I will add this:
“Nearly three weeks have gone by since Election Day, and hardly any Republican senators have had the guts to speak out against President Donald Trump’s relentless attacks on the electoral system. Well, Carl Bernstein has had enough. The legendary journalist named and shamed 21 GOP senators on Twitter who he said have been privately condemning Trump, while keeping quiet publicly. He wrote: “The 21 GOP Senators who have privately expressed their disdain for Trump are: Portman, Alexander, Sasse, Blunt, Collins, Murkowski, Cornyn, Thune, Romney, Braun, Young, Tim Scott, Rick Scott, Rubio, Grassley, Burr, Toomey, McSally, Moran, Roberts, Shelby.” Bernstein added: “With few exceptions, their craven public silence has helped enable Trump’s most grievous conduct.””
Hmmm, no McConnell? Probably feels the same but is not about to ever say so to anyone, not his wife, not to his cat, not to anyone. Perhaps he will bravely confess long after he is out of office.
Roby there are many articles already written concerning this. If he runs in 2024, no one wants to be on his S# list. If they speak out and they are up for reelection in 2022, they dont want to piss off his supporters. They get primaried out before the national elections. If they run in 2024 and he is nominee, they know he would support a primary candidate in 2024. And again they get primaried out.
Its called career preservation. Jusr like house members that go against Pelosi. Many found goingvagainst hervwas their ticket out of D.C.
We will see. I will bet you a homemade pie that he is not the nominee in 2024 and that in the end a large number of GOP figures will come out of their trance and speak up a la Romney and Sasse. (Then again, I seriously expected that GOP Senators would make a joint agreement with each other to find him guilty at his impeachment, boy can I be naive.)
I agree. But, I am not looking at this blindly like so many of my Trumper friends that are excited about his thinking of a 2024 run, or my Trump hater friends that get all over me like smell on crap when I try to explain his actions and they think I am supporting him. Today, one can not analyze and explain without being attacked by one side or the other.
So, I am not a Trump supporter going forward. I am explaining GOP political actions from my analysis. Many will come out against him if they have to going forward. Many will support another candidate, and if the dip $#1t$ in the GOP dont support 10 different 2024 candidates, then maybe one or two can get enough primary votes to send him home. And those afraid to speak up, can then speak freely. Its all about 2024 now. In 12 months, it could be all different. Just dont piss off Trump supporters now.
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